Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Keebz]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So yeah in this theoretical best of the best it’s either
-clr/ench/ench/mage if you don’t need a FD split
-clr/ench/ench/nec if FD split would be useful or at a tougher camp that may benefit from the expanded necro tool kit (but you lose malo)

clr/ench/necro/mage is also a strong pick if there's undead to charm (HS for example)

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cleric and ench duo are already wickedly OP. Add a second ench for 2nd pet and backup cc and it’s that much easier. So yeah 3/4 are spoken for.

Remaining options:

-druid (lol no)

-wizard (lol even more no)

-shaman: gives you redundant slows you don’t need, heals you won’t need, buffs you won’t need, a pet that sucks and malo (value added). Dots will not add much as with 2 ench pets nothing is alive long. Malo is good but shamans don’t have a monopoly on this line. Shaman isn’t a terrible choice, but you’re bringing along a class that can’t contribute as much as other options

-mage: strong pet for additional dps and backup tanking (value added), malo (value added), mod rods (value added), coth (value added for both mobility and aggro wipe mechanics), pet haste masks (value added as pets are literally all your dps) … and when all else is covered and nothing else needed, nifty nuke burn potential.

-necro: decent pet choices for additional dps and backup tanking (value added), twitches (value added), additional cc (value added root and screaming), backup heals (probably not needed but value added), FD (value added and opens up some content), snare (meh but value added?), backup rez (value added) … and when all else is covered they can burn extra mana nuking stuff down or just twitching.


So yeah in this theoretical best of the best it’s either
-clr/ench/ench/mage if you don’t need a FD split
-clr/ench/ench/nec if FD split would be useful or at a tougher camp that may benefit from the expanded necro tool kit (but you lose malo)

Shaman are a top notch class but compared to mage or necro … relative dead weight only contributing redundant bs you don’t really need. A competent cleric can easily manage 2 charming enchanters cross covering cc … and healing a charm pet is so laughably easy you don’t need slow … and when you do enchanters can do that too last I checked.


I fully expect a literal tidal wave of dissenting responses from DSM but I call em like I see em.

Good summary, I just said Cleric/Enc/Mage/Nec so you'd have all bases covered. You'd be losing more dps but with 1 charmed pet, 1 mage, and 1 necro pet/charmed pet(if undead) will just destroy anything so i'd rather take the necro over the 2nd enc.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Troxx has a 60 mage and has run many parses, I am betting he can provide this data as well.

I haven’t parsed mage pets since the nerf but in a standard group combining my dps from nukes and pet dps I’d usually put out 100-120 dps sustained (not factoring in dmg shield). 100-120 is a huge range mind you and this is just an average of fights. Some will be lower in the 80 range and others higher in the 140 range. Burst dps? Cracking well above the 200 is very doable if you’re sitting on the mana and aggro is no concern.

This ignores mage DS which, though not astronomical adds up very efficiently over time. Can’t really parse this but can calculate because every time the mob hits your DS target it adds a fixed amount of damage. Quad and unslowed very healthy damage. Slowed and doubling? Not so much.

But … mages can suffer in. Bad group setup. In a fast chain pulling melee heavy group with no clarity it’s gonna be a lot lower than sitting in a group that has clarity +/- bard. It’s basically then just your pets dps plus your sustained dps potential over time medding at 20 a tick with no buffs. If the pulls never stop you basically baby sit your pet and lob a bomb at slow rates. This is still better dps than most non raid geared melee can manage and certainly higher than a shaman lol.

On the flip side if you’re sitting in a mana rich group with less than chain pulls (ie any modicum of downtime really ramps up potential) … mages take off like a rocket.

Mage dps potential in groups is really only second to charmed pets. They are, however, quite variable depending on group composition and location.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I would like to see the actual parse data. One person said 40-70 and Troxx is saying 80-200 lol. I don't believe that. 40-200 is a pretty big range. I would like to know how you are calculating DPS too, make sure we are doing the same math.

[ezigrelnos]

has no one said 4 enchanter yet do you even take damage like one enchanter no pet and only pulls + does mez?

why even bring the cleric/shaman/mage? can oh shit moments happen with 4 coordinated enchanters?

i mean OP said best so i imagine some nice gaming chairs behind those keyboards

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Just for perspective, here is a raid parse I pulled up from some old logs:

[Mon Apr 29 20:58:14 2019] Playbook tells the guild, 'Lady Mirenilla in 370s, 312k @843dps --- Jonwayne 25k @98dps --- Vapos 23k @93dps --- Digler 23k @87dps --- Brooksaw 23k @87dps --- Evulsion 22k @85dps --- Vulroth 22k @84dps --- Playbook 19k @71dps --- Wickett 19k @72dps --- Funz 18k @69dps --- Shaolen 17k @67dps'

There is no way a Mage is at 100 DPS when top geared Rogues are barely hitting 100 DPS. Maybe if you are parsing really low/easy mobs. But then Shamans would parse higher too lol.

Please show your parses and how you are doing them.

Originally Posted by ezigrelnos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

has no one said 4 enchanter yet do you even take damage like one enchanter no pet and only pulls + does mez?

why even bring the cleric/shaman/mage? can oh shit moments happen with 4 coordinated enchanters?

i mean OP said best so i imagine some nice gaming chairs behind those keyboards

The reason why 4 Enchanters wouldn't be great is because more charmed pets = more chance of getting destroyed if bad luck charm breaks occur. While everything is going your way the group would churn through mobs. But you are going to get some deaths/gates too lol.

[Troxx]

Why are you using a raid parse when we’re talking group content lol. You’re comparing apples to raw fish. Everyone here knows that high ac raid mobs and giant level gaps have a huge impact on pet dps.

We’re talking groups; not raids.

Mage pet by itself puts out a lot more than 40dps. Have you ever actually parsed a high end mage pet DSM. If not, you’d be shocked.

Unless you’re lazy not chain summoning for a max and lazy not keeping up pet haste… you might see some lower numbers then.

Also don’t take my post out of context. Over 200dps on an all out burn on group content (pet plus nukes) is possible followed by a very long Med break.

My preferred nuke was shock of steel 825dmg, 6 second cast, conjugation spec 275 mana. With an Insta click to negate recast time that’s 137.5 dps potential chain cast. For a harder burn but more mana intensive being conjuration spec the 59 nukes comes out to 146.3 dps chain cast. Add in a max summon pet buffed/hasted and masked and you can crack 200dps on an all out burn factoring in DS.

For routine fights it was pet plus a shock of steel or 2 per fight.

100-120 is what I was capable before pet nerf with pet putting out 60-75 of that dps by itself. Remember though … this was back when the max hit on 60 water pet was like 68. It’s lower now.

I didn’t have to calculate anything. GamParse has a live, real time parse function with a heads up display. It also has a function where you can link a player’s dps and their pets dps. The parser will not pick up damage shield damage unless you, the player doing the parsing are the one with the dmg shield and being hit.

It’s not rocket surgery DSM …

[zelld52]

enc, enc, enc, cleric

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why are you using a raid parse when we’re talking group content lol. You’re comparing apples to raw fish. Everyone here knows that high ac raid mobs and giant level gaps have a huge impact on pet dps.

We’re talking groups; not raids.

Mage pet by itself puts out a lot more than 40dps. Have you ever actually parsed a high end mage pet DSM. If not, you’d be shocked.

Unless you’re lazy not chain summoning for a max and lazy not keeping up pet haste… you might see some lower numbers then.

Also don’t take my post out of context. Over 200dps on an all out burn on group content (pet plus nukes) is possible followed by a very long Med break.

My preferred nuke was shock of steel 825dmg, 6 second cast, conjugation spec 275 mana. With an Insta click to negate recast time that’s 137.5 dps potential chain cast. For a harder burn but more mana intensive being conjuration spec the 59 nukes comes out to 146.3 dps chain cast. Add in a max summon pet buffed/hasted and masked and you can crack 200dps on an all out burn factoring in DS.

For routine fights it was pet plus a shock of steel or 2 per fight.

100-120 is what I was capable before pet nerf with pet putting out 60-75 of that dps by itself. Remember though … this was back when the max hit on 60 water pet was like 68. It’s lower now.

I didn’t have to calculate anything. GamParse has a live, real time parse function with a heads up display. It also has a function where you can link a player’s dps and their pets dps. The parser will not pick up damage shield damage unless you, the player doing the parsing are the one with the dmg shield and being hit.

It’s not rocket surgery DSM …

It isn't rocket surgery indeed. But we need to parse the same mob so we can get an accurate comparison. Please post some logs so I can accurately parse my Shaman to the same standard as your parses. I was parsing on WW Dragons, so my DPS is going to be lower than if you are parsing easy 40s mobs.

[ezigrelnos]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The reason why 4 Enchanters wouldn't be great is because more charmed pets = more chance of getting destroyed if bad luck charm breaks occur.

thats why 1 enchanter has no pets & pulls; coordinated voice chat with team means every other enchanter can stun for the broken pet and even if you get 3 broken pets at once thats 4 enchanter stunning so i dont see how any type of rngesus aggro would not instantly get squashed with the insane kit that is stacked gaming enchanters

while the cler/sham try to heal the non-existent dmg and the mag is just a lack of charm dps