Real Dungeons and Dragons

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

IDK you might want to look up the history of DND I think it was a big part of 2nd edition to design the fantasy classes like that, and is a lot more like EQ than 5th edition or pathfinder IMO and came about in like the late 80s afaik not while everquest was around.

Like i think rounding out the tolken fantasy characters into Wis/int/dps/tank was a first in 2nd edition. And indeed what EQ design is called out as being inspired by specifically.

I'm telling you man, I've been into D&D since I got the basic edition purple boxed set at a garage sale when I was 6 years old ... and it's always been that way: Intelligence has been the "Wizard stat", and Wisdom the "Cleric stat", since the game started (although maybe not in Chainmail; I have no idea how it worked).

Now there were certainly differences between the editions. For instance, in first edition, Druids were a weird special class you could only get by dual-classing, whereas in second edition they were just a normal class. But Wisdom was only sort of the stat for Druids in 2nd ed (they required 12+ Wisdom and 15+ Charisma); it wasn't their primary stat until 3rd ed.

Similarly, Rogues got a little more DPS-y with each edition (originally they were more about "thieving skills" like lockpicking or moving silently), but they've had backstab since the start.

Oh yea, btw if you're gonna run a D&D campaign inside of EQ use this!

Heh, no [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Again, D&D would not be my first (or even fifth) choice of game, but if I was going to run it I'd run Greyhawk, or Planescape, or (if I was doing an old school campaign) Mystara/Hollow World ... not Norath.

[robayon]

Originally Posted by MrSparkle001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But Neverwinter Nights has a great multiplayer community and unique servers. I never played the single player campaigns, I jumped straight into the multiplayer servers.

Hmm, I did the reverse with NWN. Never once played it online, but I played through the single-player campaigns as a monk and then a cleric. I should go back and try it, I think I have it on GoG or something.

That all being said, BG2 is still my go-to favorite isometric RPG. BG1 was pretty good, but BG2 was amazing. I have not tried BG3 but I'm skeptical. Divine Divinity team was okay but I heard a lot of bad stuff, waiting for the full release. Unless it came out and I missed it.

RIP David Warner https://www.pcgamer.com/david-warner...icus-has-died/

[Jibartik]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm telling you man, I've been into D&D since I got the basic edition purple boxed set at a garage sale when I was 6 years old ... and it's always been that way: Intelligence has been the "Wizard stat", and Wisdom the "Cleric stat", since the game started (although maybe not in Chainmail; I have no idea how it worked).

Now there were certainly differences between the editions. For instance, in first edition, Druids were a weird special class you could only get by dual-classing, whereas in second edition they were just a normal class. But Wisdom was only sort of the stat for Druids in 2nd ed (they required 12+ Wisdom and 15+ Charisma); it wasn't their primary stat until 3rd ed.

Similarly, Rogues got a little more DPS-y with each edition (originally they were more about "thieving skills" like lockpicking or moving silently), but they've had backstab since the start.



Heh, no [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Again, D&D would not be my first (or even fifth) choice of game, but if I was going to run it I'd run Greyhawk, or Planescape, or (if I was doing an old school campaign) Mystara/Hollow World ... not Norath.

The way your brain works makes me want to cry: The eq roleplaying game [is not D&D]

But I digress...

OK, so you played a lot of D&D, but that doesn't mean that you can pretend that the rules dont say that the original DND was 3 classes, and because they added so many classes to the game with subsequent expansions, that with 2nd edition in 1989 they streamlined the game by making it 4 base classes.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The way your brain works makes me want to cry: The book I linked [is not D&D] so I dont know why you need to say: "again, d&d would not be your first choice."

You fail to understand: the book you linked is D&D. It just wasn't labeled as such because they didn't want to play by the rules of the OGL (the legal license that came along with reusing D&D 3E rules). Emphasis added:

Originally Posted by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest_Role-Playing_Game

EverQuest Role-Playing Game was first published in summer 2002 under Wizards of the Coast's Open Gaming License using a system nearly identical to the d20 System; however, it was not d20 System branded because it included self-contained rules for character creation and advancement.[citation needed]

[Reiwa]

DIKUMUD / EVERQUEST

After two hectic days, Verant and the DIKU group jointly resolved the DikuMUD / EverQuest infringement rumors on March 17th, 2000.

The DIKU group received a sworn statement from Verant, and the DIKU group thus no longer finds any reason what-so-ever to believe any of the rumors that EverQuest should be based on DikuMUD.

The DIKU group is proud that “the DIKU feeling” has found its way into a game as enjoyable and award-winning as EverQuest.

In other words, the check cleared. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OK, so you played a lot of D&D, but that doesn't mean that you can pretend that the rules dont say that the original DND was 3 classes, and because they added so many classes to the game with subsequent expansions, that with 2nd edition in 1989 they streamlined the game by making it 4 base classes.

What "original D&D" are you talking about: Chaimail? That was a different game, which was the precursor to D&D.

Then came a few tiny print runs of the original game, and then came Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 1st Edition (followed very shortly by Basic D&D; they kinda splintered the game in the early days).

But I have both the Basic D&D book and the AD&D books out in my garage: I assure you, they both have more than 3 classes.

Basic D&D had no races: if you wanted to be a Dwarf, Elf, or Halfling, that was considered a class in that system. But still, there were the same four core classes (Fighter/Thief/Wizard/Cleric), plus the three racial ones ... and then AD&D added even more (like Illusionist or Paladin).

[Jibartik]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You fail to understand: the book you linked is D&D. It just wasn't labeled as such because they didn't want to play by the rules of the OGL (the legal license that came along with reusing D&D 3E rules). Emphasis added:

oh wow its not even a TSR or Wizards of the coast game.

[Jibartik]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What "original D&D" are you talking about: Chaimail? That was a different game, which was the precursor to D&D.

I have both the Basic D&D book and the AD&D books out in my garage: I assure you, they both have more than 3 classes.

In the original 1st edition Dungeons & Dragons boxed set, there were only three main classes: the Cleric, the Fighting man, and the Magic-User.

The first supplement, Greyhawk, added the Thief as a fourth main class, as well as the Paladin as a Fighting Man subclasses and AD&D 1st edition introduced a few more.

The 2nd edition of Advanced Dungeons & Dragons attempted to streamline what had become a hodgepodge of rules that only applied in specific cases in 1st edition.

As such, it sought to simplify the rules and straighten out contradictions. Character classes were divided into four groups or "metaclasses": Warrior, Wizard, Priest, and Rogue in 1989

Go check it and let me know!

The above quoted text, that's directly taken from the DND wiki.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

oh wow its not even a TSR or Wizards of the coast game.

Yeah, Ryan Dancey (awesome guy) was big at WotC when 3E D&D came out, and he pushed the OGL (and the whole idea of non-WotC people being able to make D&D products) hard.

It was amazing for the game and community, creating tons of "D20" products (plus a few like Everquest that weren't official "D20", but still were using all the rules) ... and then they got greedy and thought "someone else is getting to make money off D&D besides us!?!?!?", kicked Dancey out, and pulled the OGL way back with 4E [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Go check it and let me know!

The above quoted text, that's directly taken from the DND wiki.

Yeah, so the original 1st edition D&D was more like beta D&D or D&D 0.5 or something, because it was a brand new game no one had ever played before, and also no one had any idea how popular it would be:

The original Dungeons & Dragons, now referred to as OD&D,[79] was a small box set of three booklets published in 1974. With a very limited production budget of only $2000—with only $100 budgeted for artwork[80]: 26 —it was amateurish in production and assumed the player was familiar with wargaming.

The first "real D&D" to most players was "Basic D&D" (in early 1977) and "Advanced D&D" (in late 1977).

So, you're technically correct that the first edition of D&D ever was weird and (I guess?) only had 3 classes, but all that was sorted within 3 years. For the 20+ years after (1977-1999) every edition had more than 3 classes, clerics used Wisdom, wizards used Intelligence, etc.

And again, 2nd Edition came out in 1989, so that was the "current edition" for DikuMUD/EQ devs (3E wouldn't come out until 2000).