Iksar Monk: 20 sta the endgame choice?

sajbert · #1 03-05-2023, 12:05 PM

In a fever dream where you had full raid BIS-gear, wouldn't you be stamina and str capped without buffs or avatar proc?

I have no idea what I'm doing but throwing together a kit of gear focusing on 3 x AoB, regen+eb+truevision, AC, HP and MR (roughly that order) and I'm at 254 sta and str without a single attribute point spent, even whilst using summoned shurikens.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Green:Monkeybis
(feel free to C&C my picks).

The typical recommendation is to put all points into stamina if you wish to minmax. Is it simply not true once you have transcended your corporeal body in your mom's basement and achieved full BIS?

Or am I simply really bad at playing magelo online? If not, should we dump points into dex instead for faster non-buffed primal procs? Or agi for that AC? Or charisma for vendor prices and... uh DI?

Snaggles · #2 03-05-2023, 12:26 PM

Full raid BiS on a monk is going to take a long time. For good reason a lot of people who are avid raiders pour buckets of dkp into monks.

It’s just a matter of how many years it will take to cap str with raid gear (while maintaining hps and svs) and then stamina. I can definitely see Stamina being something to put points into if you do plan to raid a lot.

I think then worrying about being under cap in Dex for pre-avatar procs is the nth degree of theorycrafting. It’s kind of like worrying about which powertrain setup would be most reliable for your Sunseeker luxury yacht. No offense intended, I love thinking ahead I just don’t believe anyone who hits all these gearing achievements is like “JFC, if only I had put my points into agility/dex”.

sajbert · #3 03-05-2023, 12:44 PM

Oh I wouldn't worry about feeling silly once I'd have all BIS. I'll NEVER have all BIS, not even close. It's more of an OCD-type of deal to me. Also, being 20 stamina short when raiding I doubt will make or break the experience much and if anything going 20 dex seems more fun over the long haul once you get proccing weapons.

Thinking of putting 20points into dex, or well maybe 18 and 1pt into str and sta assuming the magelo BIS-profile is where I'd wanna go should I ever be locked in a basement for 30 years.

DeathsSilkyMist · #4 03-05-2023, 12:51 PM

As Snaggles points out, a full BiS Monk will have a primal weapon, so STR, DEX, and AGI will be capped regardless. If you really cared about having 255 dex for proccing Avatar initially, you could just ask for a DEX buff or Avatar, then click off the extra buffs once you get your first proc.

You are correct that any race can cap their STA with BiS gear and a Shaman STA buff.

However, Monks don't have a good non combat stat to dump into if you are going for Min/Max. I don't believe Monks get Divine Intervention cast on them enough to worry about it. Warriors have CHA for Divine Intervention, hybrids have INT/WIS, etc.

So for Monks STA is still probably the best choice because it allows you to reduce the number of buffs you need by 1, and it allows you to swap gear around for resistances. For example, a BiS monk would have https://wiki.project1999.com/Robe_of_the_Azure_Sky as a chest swap for resistances. So you would lose 10 STA right there. You would also have https://wiki.project1999.com/Shawl_of_Protection , which would reduce your STA by a further 15. So wearing Robe + Shawl means you are down 25 STA. Having +30 all resistances over your current setup is generally going to be better than 150 worn HP, so honestly I would probably just wear Robe + Shawl all the time and forego getting the Tunic and Pauldrons.

Cecily · #5 03-05-2023, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Full raid BiS on a monk is going to take a long time. For good reason a lot of people who are avid raiders pour buckets of dkp into monks.

It’s just a matter of how many years it will take to cap str with raid gear (while maintaining hps and svs) and then stamina. I can definitely see Stamina being something to put points into if you do plan to raid a lot.

I think then worrying about being under cap in Dex for pre-avatar procs is the nth degree of theorycrafting. It’s kind of like worrying about which powertrain setup would be most reliable for your Sunseeker luxury yacht. No offense intended, I love thinking ahead I just don’t believe anyone who hits all these gearing achievements is like “JFC, if only I had put my points into agility/dex”.

I 100% believe that +++ dex builds are a smart move for rangers / monks. Yeah, I've had that thought about helping proc avatar. There's also a bit earlier in game with stuns and tstaves and also weapons that stun for monks. There's no point in the game, pre/post primal where extra dex wouldn't be helpful, baring 255 unbuffed dex soloing. MOST monks will not get primals. MOST monks will not cap dex unbuffed. HP is the not the end all be all for EQ. I would rather proc a stun soloing more often over 20 mobs than have an extra 100 HP to make the 1 in 20 less sketchy. Probably a shit opinion for raiding, but I raid to get stuff to not raid with if that makes sense.

tl;dr: Yeah +20 STA

Snaggles · #6 03-05-2023, 01:16 PM

I totally get it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I also think monks and rangers like Cecily said have some weapons (plus archery crits) that are amazing with higher dex. It’s a weak spot for my ranger I know.

Yea just in general I think the mileage from Sta will be a bit greater though still not as noticeable as being undercapped for str (until that’s not an issue). DSM is spot on as well. Unbuffed hps are really handy for a puller so having this capped without Riotous Health or even pants click is handy.

The more sta and str you have the more you can pick items that are not optimized for melee but have say a ton of Sv magic. Not a thing for BiS but there will be a time where you should some of this stuff. Even if say wearing BD’s while waiting at Scout.

sajbert · #7 03-05-2023, 05:08 PM

So basically, more sta to allow for more gear flexibility and probably provide more use until BIS, compared to dex which will be useful in any situation BIS or no BIS .

Meh, dex seems like the fun choice - I'll go with that. Thanks for the input guys!

Solist · #8 03-05-2023, 07:59 PM

Capping stamina happens pretty quick in any raid scene monk.

And even if it doesn't, who has the buff slots for stamina for the sake of 20 hp or whatever to finally cap it if you're like 230.
grim aura/epic click
10th ring
see invis
ultravision
5 flowers
avatar
fos/dain hammer
vog
aego
sow

Leaves 1 slot for fear/some other AE, and celestial elixir or DI. May swap out an unneeded flower as required for the DI/elixir, and/or keep a top 2/3 slot open for slime mist. But by and large you're buff slot limited on a monk. But luckily monk gear generally stacks stamina fairly easily.

Croco · #9 03-05-2023, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sajbert [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So basically, more sta to allow for more gear flexibility and probably provide more use until BIS, compared to dex which will be useful in any situation BIS or no BIS .

Meh, dex seems like the fun choice - I'll go with that. Thanks for the input guys!

Dex is a garbage choice. Stam all the way.

DeathsSilkyMist · #10 03-05-2023, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Croco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dex is a garbage choice. Stam all the way.

Agreed. If you are planning for BiS gear, you are going to easily cap DEX with buffs. You are getting 160 DEX from FoS + Avatar, and your starting DEX is 85 or 95. So you are basically able to cap DEX without gear, just using the primary buffs you would be using anyway.