How good is greenmist really?

[ya.dingus]

I know, it's a good weapon, but I'm not even talking about the ratios and stats, I'm talking strictly about its proc.

I've heard you can weapon swap on procs and basically double dip with your 2h epic for the lifetap dot.

Is this really that good to be picking iksar over say troll or ogre?

Also, do the other races have things that compensate race wise or is it all just flavor at that point?

[Andyman1022]

If you plan on getting Innoruuk's Curse, Greenmist is a little bit moot. I've discussed this with some folks back when I was soloing my SK from 55-60 in the hole. My SK had Greenmist and the 2hand epic, and around 190 dex. It is a real noticeable difference in dps, and by the time you procced both to stack, you would be better off re-applying the 50 hp a tick from the epic vs the GM.

That said, GM is still a wonderful tanking weapon, and is much more accessible than IC.

[ya.dingus]

How difficult is IC to get, or is it even multiquestable? I play solo mostly, and plat generation would be what I'd be using to acquire it.

Also, if you get IC, would you still use the GM for tanking over it?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by ya.dingus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know, it's a good weapon, but I'm not even talking about the ratios and stats, I'm talking strictly about its proc.

I've heard you can weapon swap on procs and basically double dip with your 2h epic for the lifetap dot.

Is this really that good to be picking iksar over say troll or ogre?

Also, do the other races have things that compensate race wise or is it all just flavor at that point?

The problem is Iksars can't use Blood Ember clickies, but every other SK race can. You are sacrificing Blood Ember clickies for an item that will be replaced by your Epic. As Andyman says, it isn't worth stacking the procs unfortunately.

Greenmist proc is 30 Damage a tick over 8 ticks, so the cap on it is 300 damage per minute if you keep re-procing it.

Epic proc proc is 50 Damage a tick over 5 tick, so the cap on it is 500 damage per minute if you keep reprocing it.

Stacking the DoTs isn't worth it. Best case is if you proc both within 12 seconds, you will get a total of 490 damage if you don't proc again, vs. 350 from proccing Epic twice within 12 seconds.

The 140 extra HP will probably end up getting lost, because you are lowering your DPS by swinging with Greenmist. Even if it doesn't get lost, Blood Ember clickies will help you more than the rare perfect DoT stack.

[Snaggles]

Let’s not get lost in the weeds over Blood Ember armor again.

The only comparison here that makes sense is the IC vs GM. Both epic and semi-epic quests. Both with hp taps which besides an invig BP (about 7hp/sec while clicking) or a fungi. (2.5hp/sec) is your only mana-free way to keep hps up.

The Epic is easily buyable and can be MQ’ed. Hell you can just loot it since it drops off Lhranc. That said I can’t imagine getting a soul leach for less than 80k. With the other stuff and a fight I’d assume this is a 130-150k buy.

The Greenmist MQ to like the 6th Kukri is around 15k. Throw in a few little parts like the golem fight and borrowing someone’s Drussila mirror and you are done.

The epic proc is 50hps/damage per tick. It’s a -200 check will land on a lot of raid stuff. There is no other component so aggro wise it’s basically 8dps for the dot alone. Exceptionally low aggro. 5 ticks = 250hp. It’s noticeably more dps, even the white damage. Stats are better and you get 2h bash, no race restrictions.

The Greenmist is a 0 check disease check. It will get resisted on stuff. There is an AC and Str tap component (ac is huge aggro). It’s 30hp/dmg per tick. 6 ticks = 180 hps. It’s a 1h so it’s less dps but you can use a shield; if you raid flurry or Sev shields are very easy to get. The stats are really nice, no hps but 25MR is underrated. You can pull aggro on VS/R and wipe your guild with one…someone did to mine [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No single piece of gear will make a race worth playing if you don’t like it at the char creation screen. Raid gear levels the playing field. Most knight spells are very low mana to cast so it’s the skill behind the char more than the size of your HP or mana pool. If you are a fatty, great. If you love Iksars, awsome. If you go with a small non-perked race, no problem. The epic is always possible…if you farm fine steel or have a guild that occasionally races for golems. It’s just going to take more time or plat to get it done than the Greenmist.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let’s not get lost in the weeds over Blood Ember armor again.

The only comparison here that makes sense is the IC vs GM. Both epic and semi-epic quests. Both with hp taps which besides an invig BP (about 7hp/sec while clicking) or a fungi. (2.5hp/sec) is your only mana-free way to keep hps up.

The Epic is easily buyable and can be MQ’ed. Hell you can just loot it since it drops off Lhranc. That said I can’t imagine getting a soul leach for less than 80k. With the other stuff and a fight I’d assume this is a 130-150k buy.

The Greenmist MQ to like the 6th Kukri is around 15k. Throw in a few little parts like the golem fight and borrowing someone’s Drussila mirror and you are done.

The epic proc is 50hps/damage per tick. It’s a -200 check will land on a lot of raid stuff. There is no other component so aggro wise it’s basically 8dps for the dot alone. 5 Exceptionally low aggro. 5 ticks = 250hp. It’s noticeably more dps, even the white damage. Stats are better and you get 2h bash, no race restrictions.

The Greenmist is a 0 check disease check. It will get resisted on stuff. There is an AC and Str tap component (ac is huge aggro). It’s 30hp/dmg per tick. 6 ticks = 180 hps. It’s a 1h so it’s less dps but you can use a shield; if you raid flurry or Sev shields are very easy to get. The stats are really nice, no hps but 25MR is underrated. You can pull aggro on VS/R and wipe your guild with one…someone did to mine [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No single piece of gear will make a race worth playing if you don’t like it at the char creation screen. Raid gear levels the playing field. Most knight spells are very low aggro to cast so it’s the skill behind the char more than the size of your HP or mana pool. If you are a fatty, great. If you love Iksars, awsome. If you go with a small non-perked race, no problem. The epic is always possible…if you farm fine steel or have a guild that occasionally races for golems. It’s just going to take more time or plat to get it done than the Greenmist.

We aren't getting "lost in the weeds" when talking about Blood Ember. That is the trade off. Iksar's get Greenmist, other races get Blood Ember. Unfortunately we don't get the update to Greenmist that removes the Iksar-only restriction.

Obviously if you like Iksar, play Iksar and get Greenmist. But OP seems to be open to many SK races since he is asking about race.

Wiki says Greenmist is 30 damage over 8 ticks. Is it wrong, or did you type the number of ticks wrong? Genuinely curious since I don't have a Greenmist to test that myself.

I do agree the 25 MR is nice, but if you are able to get a Sev shield, you can just get an Axe of Resistance if you want high resists on a weapon. Using Axe of Resistance + Sarnak Battle Shield + Runed Bone fork is 40 MR/CR/FR. Greenmist + Sarnak Battle Shield + Stone of Morid is 35 MR 40 CR/FR. Greenmist isn't going to give you a leg up in the end if resistance gear is your goal.

[Snaggles]

No, I typed it wrong. Forgot it was 240 over the course of the dot, not 180.

You can’t compare an axe of resistance to a normal 1h knight weapon. I can’t imagine trying to keep aggro (or kill something) with that since any 19/24’ish or better ratio is a struggle.

This is a case of “play what you want”. The scope of what a knight does in a group/raid or what it can while solo doesn’t come down to that last little toy. It’s pretty easy to make an argument for any race. Even leveling speed is a factor because the slog from 54-60 delays your end game activities.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, I typed it wrong. Forgot it was 240 over the course of the dot, not 180.

You can’t compare an axe of resistance to a normal 1h knight weapon. I can’t imagine trying to keep aggro (or kill something) with that since any 19/24’ish or better ratio is a struggle.

This is a case of “play what you want”. The scope of what a knight does in a group/raid or what it can while solo doesn’t come down to that last little toy. It’s pretty easy to make an argument for any race. Even leveling speed is a factor because the slog from 54-60 delays your end game activities.

When it comes to Axe of Resistance, all I am saying is I can't think of a normal fight where you actually need 25 MR on a weapon. Typically that kind of situation is where you are not tanking, and just trying to survive AoEs (raiding). In that case you aren't worrying about DPS or trying to keep agro. It seems like a very niche concern. In any normal solo/group content swapping to resistance gear is enough.

"Play what you want" is always an option, but OP is asking for suggestions hehe. If he didn't care about the different advantages/disadvantages of the races, he wouldn't ask.

You could make the argument that Iksars are the best raid focused SK, since you typically won't be using Blood Ember in raids. They have the best mitigation, and Greenmist's proc is a good agro generator. The problem is SK's are the worst raiding class in the game, so I would never recommend somebody roll an SK with min/maxing raiding in mind.

[Danth]

The extra healing can matter in specific situations. There ARE a handful of encounters the wife and I could not quite do until I completed Innoruuk's Curse on my own shadowknight. That type of shadowknight/shaman duo is probably where these types of items shine most. Outside that, it's a very nice thing to have if I'm solo'ing or duo'ing with the wife's other characters.

I said it in the other thread, but Innoruuk's Curse should not be thought of as a 500/min healing item. That's the maximum potential, but In practice it will not average that much over time since the proc falls off sometimes even with maximum or near-maximum dexterity. I expect it averages something closer to 400/min. Greenmist will sustain at or very near a 300/min average, within 10% of that probably, because the longer duration means its effect will hardly ever fall off--allowing it to sustain much nearer to its maximum potential. This is where the comparison to Greenmist gets difficult.

Compared to a non-Iksar using Innoruuk's Curse, Greenmist:

--Deals less damage over time than the epic does
--Heals for less, probably on order of 2/3 to 3/4 the healing in practice
--Is much more likely to be resisted. This may matter against encounters with highly resistant creatures.
--Between Greenmist, typical shields, and iksar racial bonus, the Iksar will have over 100 more AC than the non-iksar in equivalent gear using the epic.
--Greenmist is twice as fast as Innoruuk's Curse and will generate accordingly more ripostes. This may possibly reduce the weapon's benefit when used against high-hitting creatures.

Greenmist is a very nice item for players who enjoy playing iksars anyway. I would not pick iksar just to have access to that one item, but Innoruuk's Curse is hard enough to obtain that Greenmist may have a strong appeal to lower-end players who won't easily get the standard epic. It took me over four years to complete IC--many players don't play on P99 that long, period. Greenmist can be acquired much more easily. That's probably it's largest benefit.

Danth

[Snaggles]

DSM, we are going to agree to disagree on the MR. It’s very handy especially for non/raid situations. I definitely agree I wouldn’t use a GM on raids unless maybe trash tanking.

Nice post Danth.

Quick rundown:
Ogre - “FSI”, stamina, str, blood ember. 15% xp penalty, large so needs shrink or skelly to get around even normal size places comfortably. Can slam/bash with 2h unless skelly.

Troll - regen, stamina, str, blood ember. 20% xp penalty, large so needs shrink or skelly to get around even normal size places comfortably. Can slam/bash with 2h unless skelly.

Iksar - regen, racial AC bonus mainly good pre-tov armor, Greenmist and stone of morid. Medium race that can use Frostreaver. 20% xp penalty, only needs shrink for raiding. Very evil race. Needs a shield or epic to bash.

Human/Eru/DE - blood ember, like iksar can get a 100hp rot shield in Kithicor. No xp penalty. No shrink needed for normal use. Vision issues (HUM/ERU) or ultravision (DE). DE can do reaper quest easy. Very moderate stats, high to very high intel. Erudites nor Dark Elves can use the Frostreaver (only Human). Needs a shield or epic to bash.