Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Gloomlord]

I'm not advocating for bard kiting in a group! Jesus Christ! How could you miss the point of what I'm getting at?

I'm saying having a shaman root rot in this group is as pointless and insane as a bard AoE kiting in a group that is using charms to kill one mob at a time. Why would either of them be doing that?

You blithering imbecile!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not advocating for bard kiting in a group! Jesus Christ! How could you miss the point of what I'm getting at?

I'm saying having a shaman root rot in this group is as pointless and insane as a bard AoE kiting in a group that is using charms to kill one mob at a time. Why would either of them be doing that?

You blithering imbecile!

I am not missing the point at all. You are the only person who has brought up bard kiting in a group hehe.

Comparing bard kiting to root rotting simply shows how little you know about the game. It's much easier to root rot than it is to set up a bard kit. You can root rot just about anywhere.

Funnily enough, there are some zones where you could probably have a bard kite going while the group kills elsewhere. Velks is a good example. Since the first part of the zone is mostly vertical, you are probably going to be close enough to the bard to get XP if they are swarm kiting at the bottom. So your group could be sitting at frenzy and pulling from the top while the bard is swarming at the bottom. You could be on to something! Only a few zones would support it, which is why you wouldn't take a bard just for that.

[Gloomlord]

Anyone reading this now can see you just missed the point. It doesn't matter if root rotting is more viable than AoE kiting in zones.

Why would I be doing either root rotting or AoE kiting in a 2 charm group with a cleric? How does this aid their method? Why are either of those things preferable to a mage contributing to single target focus?

Read, you simpleton!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anyone reading this now can see you just missed the point. It doesn't matter if root rotting is more viable than AoE kiting in zones.

Why would I be doing either root rotting or AoE kiting in a 2 charm group with a cleric? How does this aid their method? Why are either of those things preferable to a mage contributing to single target focus?

Read, you simpleton!

If you agree that root rotting is more viable than swarm kiting, then your comparison between root rotting and swarm kiting simply goes out the window. It is an apples to oranges comparison. This means you have no point to make.

The only person not reading is yourself. To answer your question (which I already have), you can root rot mobs while your group is killing singles. It's really not a hard concept. Bring a few mobs into camp and root them while the Shaman is DoTing the mobs that aren't being attacked by the pets. A lot of groups already do the part where they bring multiple mobs into camp and root them away from the pets while they kill one at a time. Just add some DoTs lol, its a few clicks.

[Gloomlord]

And I could be AoE kiting at the bottom of Velks as a Bard in this group, completely outstripping my other 3 teammates as I slowly destroy 25 spiders.

It doesn't matter, you complete idiot, if I completely out DPS the mage. It doesn't matter if I can root rot 3+ mobs next to 3 other teammates doing a charm group.

The point is that it's worthless to this group. You suggest it because shamans can do more DPS than mages, just like kiting mobs as bard does more DPS, but it's worthless to this composition.

The hypothetical two enchanters and one cleric would regard you as an imbecile for wasting their time with your stupid shenanigans. You're just interfering with their one target at a time method, when they possibly could have got some more sustainable DPS from a mage, that only requires hitting the assist and pet attack keybinds.

You're an idiot. I don't think there's anything more I can say here. You were the same moron who thinks warriors are better soloers than enchanters, and that COTH makes mage a "porting class". Is it surprising?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And I could be AoE kiting at the bottom of Velks as a Bard in this group, completely outstripping my other 3 teammates as I slowly destroy 25 spiders.

It doesn't matter, you complete idiot, if I completely out DPS the mage. It doesn't matter if I can root rot 3+ mobs next to 3 other teammates doing a charm group.

The point is that it's worthless to this group. You suggest it because shamans can do more DPS than mages, just like kiting mobs as bard does more DPS, but it's worthless to this composition.

The hypothetical two enchanters and one cleric would regard you as an imbecile for wasting their time with your stupid shenanigans. You're just interfering with their one target at a time method, when they possibly could have got some more sustainable DPS from a mage, that only requires hitting the assist and pet attack keybinds.

You're an idiot. I don't think there's anything more I can say here. You were the same moron who thinks warriors are better soloers than enchanters, and that COTH makes mage a "porting class". Is it surprising?

If you are admitting that DPS doesn't matter too much in the group, then why are you bringing the Mage at all? A Shaman is the second best solo class in the game, and provides much more utility than a Mage other than if you need CoTH. As I said before, if you are only doing camps that need CoTH, bring the Mage!

I am sorry, but you don't get to decide how other people want to play the game. Your entire argument hinges on the assumption everybody wants to play the game in the exact same way as yourself. You really need to get a life if you think you can enforce such a policy by insulting other people on a forum.

It is clear you are losing the argument when you try to play a semantic game about what "teleport" means in a 20 year old elf sim[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] CoTH is the only other spell in the game besides ports/evacs that allows you to teleport a player other than yourself, which is why it is not the same as something like Gate, another apples to oranges comparison you made earlier.

You also are twisting my words about Warriors and Enchanters, another sign of losing the argument. I said a low level, well twinked Warrior can solo better than a low level Enchanter. That doesn't mean I am saying "A Warrior solos better than an Enchanter", because that implies I said a level 60 Warrior can solo better than a level 60 Enchanter, which is obviously not true. I was specifically referring to the level range of about 1-30.

Again, this is why the thread is 377 pages. You twist peoples words and make strawmen to try and sound right. If that isn't trolling, it is disingenuous at best.

[Lampolo]

DSM most of what you do is point out technical vagrancies and propose strawman arguments. Most of the arguments you have are meaningless if not strawman. You are not comprehending simple concepts. You act as if you don't know some things are true.

You are either a disciplined troll or you have some mental disability combined with a higher level of narcissism than normal.

You are ripe for bullying, you egg people on because your so out of touch, vocal and stubborn. You are very unlikeable. Please evaluate your self. I mean your real self, not your shaman. And if you’re a troll, congrats, best I have ever seen.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Gloomlord, here is the flaw with your argument in the shortest summation, ignoring the irrelevant strawmen and insults:

1. You say the DPS from a Mage is important for this group.
2. At the same time, you posit that the extra DPS from a Shaman root/rotting should never be considered.

These two ideas are at odds with each other. If DPS is important to your group, there is no reason to willingly give up DPS if you care about efficiency.

You have a personal preference on play style, which is consistent DPS that is achievable with a single button click. There is nothing wrong with that personal preference. The problem is you are forcing that playstyle onto everyone else to try and win the argument. It's basically an ad populum fallacy.

Easy DPS does not automatically equal superior kill speeds in a group. If you want to make that claim, you need to bring evidence other than your personal preference.

Originally Posted by Lampolo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DSM most of what you do is point out technical vagrancies and propose strawman arguments. Most of the arguments you have are meaningless if not strawman. You are not comprehending simple concepts. You act as if you don't know some things are true.

You are either a disciplined troll or you have some mental disability combined with a higher level of narcissism than normal.

You are ripe for bullying, you egg people on because your so out of touch, vocal and stubborn. You are very unlikeable. Please evaluate your self. I mean your real self, not your shaman. And if you’re a troll, congrats, best I have ever seen.

It honestly baffles me that you think this makes you look good, and me look bad. Simply insulting someone over and over just makes you look like an asshole, or a troll[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] A statement like "you are ripe for bullying" is admitting you are a bully lol.

[Lysander]

Wow I just found this thread and this is a gem outside of RnF, I am surprised no one moved it.

As for my takes on it, unfortunately for all you guys trying to look good for arguing with DSM; you guys were clearly trolling him, and I don't know how some of you guys think you are angels for opposing him and losing faith in humanity because of his persistence. It's a bit much. And clearly, I think DSM should have given up on page 30 rather than on page 360. I think he has a bit of a problem for going on so long, but so do all of you clearly and you should stop pretending to be white knights like you have the high ground or something. You are not heroes of justice for opposing his (possibly) wrong views about Everquest. The projection that DSM is a autistic stubborn asshole troll but not me is baffling considering many of you also argued for a good 40-50 pages of this thread too.

If you all notice, this thread only ended when DSM stopped posting. That should be a sign that you guys were all egging him on, not the other way around. DSM's character flaw is just that doesn't know how to let others get the last word in. (I think he's learning) And he has different opinions about things. He seems cool and I would take him in my xp group any day. You guys say he's a complete moron but I haven't seen any evidence he doesn't play his shaman well.

As for the content of the thread, well I've never been in a 4 person group for optimization purposes so I think it's a dumb thing to debate. I would probably pick enc/enc/cleric/mage. Sorry DSM, they convinced me, I think you're wrong. I support your crusade and I have never been in a enc/enc/cleric/shm group in my life so i have no idea. I don't agree with everything he posts but he has his points and I enjoy reading them, and clearly most of the forum does here too because everytime he posts things they balloon to 50 pages. Y'all should be really grateful to him. You all flame him and troll him but he's still here. Most people would have left long ago.

I'm so glad to contribute to this amazing thread! BDA to Phinigel!

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Lysander [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wow I just found this thread and this is a gem outside of RnF, I am surprised no one moved it.

As for my takes on it, unfortunately for all you guys trying to look good for arguing with DSM; you guys were clearly trolling him, and I don't know how some of you guys think you are angels for opposing him and losing faith in humanity because of his persistence. It's a bit much. And clearly, I think DSM should have given up on page 30 rather than on page 360. I think he has a bit of a problem for going on so long, but so do all of you clearly and you should stop pretending to be white knights like you have the high ground or something. You are not heroes of justice for opposing his (possibly) wrong views about Everquest. The projection that DSM is a autistic stubborn asshole troll but not me is baffling considering many of you also argued for a good 40-50 pages of this thread too.

If you all notice, this thread only ended when DSM stopped posting. That should be a sign that you guys were all egging him on, not the other way around. DSM's character flaw is just that doesn't know how to let others get the last word in. (I think he's learning) And he has different opinions about things. He seems cool and I would take him in my xp group any day. You guys say he's a complete moron but I haven't seen any evidence he doesn't play his shaman well.

As for the content of the thread, well I've never been in a 4 person group for optimization purposes so I think it's a dumb thing to debate. I would probably pick enc/enc/cleric/mage. Sorry DSM, they convinced me. I support your crusade and I have never been in a enc/enc/cleric/shm group in my life so i have no idea. I don't agree with everything he posts but he has his points and I enjoy reading them, and clearly most of the forum does here too because everytime he posts things they balloon to 50 pages. Y'all should be really grateful to him. Most people would have left long ago.

I'm so glad to contribute to this amazing thread! BDA to Phinigel!

Found the VQ alt