Spell Costs

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Namsaknoi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It does make a lot of difference in long run for inflation, whether it be 10% less or 30% less. From my memory, LDCs regularly dropped 3-5pp, while imps in Sol B drop 6-7pp on live. Half of that would be generous on P99.

It really doesn't make a difference at all in the long run. Maybe in a world where people didn't have the knowledge that they do about classic EQ, but this is really a drop in the bucket. Given your join date, maybe you're somewhat new to the P99 experience (not saying that in a bad way) and never experienced a server launch from scratch here. Both Blue and Green became mudflated pretty quickly. People know every single plat camp and in the early days of the servers they get farmed 24/7 and plat influx into the economy is really fast here. If you increased plat drops on those random mobs would it increase the inflation rate a bit? For sure. But would that ultimately make a material impact on how quickly things become mudlated on P99 servers? Not at all.

[Wilshire]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's always exceptions that prove the rule ... but Druid level 14 isn't it. Cascade of Hail, Expulse Summoned, Halo of Light, and Invigor are all straight garbage. Befriend Animal probably won't get used at that level either (unless you are a twink with the Goblin Gazughi Ring), See Invisible won't be useful for a very long time, and Summon Food/Water are only useful circumstantially.

Cascade of Hail is actually better than Ignite in terms of damage per mana.

Ignite - ~37 damage for 30 mana at level 14.
Cascade of Hail - 81 damage (3 waves of 27 each) for 62 mana at level 14.

While there's no way an untwinked toon is going to have enough mana to be quadding at 14, it's still actually a pretty decent spell if you root bomb (and grasping roots doesn't break). While it's by no means critical, and Ignite is definitely better if you're kiting, Cascade isn't totally worthless. Cascade is only sort of worthless if you're just snaring instead of rooting the mob. I guess it depends on playstyle.

The same with Befriend Animal. It's not necessary to be charm kiting at that level for sure. There are some areas where a 14 could use it though. West Commonlands, Oasis, or Karanas, for example.

Neither of those spells is totally worthless. Yes, they aren't strictly necessary. At 14, you could still pretty easily handle most blues or on-level cons by root rotting (Grasping Roots + Stinging Swarm), nuke kiting (Snare + Stinging Swarm + Ignite while running), and even by meleeing a mob to finish them off. So, I guess that you could ignore those spells if you really wanted to (or at least save them for later) but to say that they're useless is a stretch.

[Snaggles]

I expect the philosophy of the original developers is acquiring spells for a caster is similar to getting weapons for a melee. To some degree a struggle with slow progress.

Luckily a lot of spells just aren’t needed. Putting aside the clearly dumb ones (true north and the summoned cleric hammers), the effects and duration per cast rarely justify some of the lower ranks. I think the first symbol I filled a backpack worth of regs for was Pinzarn.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Wilshire [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cascade of Hail is actually better than Ignite in terms of damage per mana.

Ignite - ~37 damage for 30 mana at level 14.
Cascade of Hail - 81 damage (3 waves of 27 each) for 62 mana at level 14.

While there's no way an untwinked toon is going to have enough mana to be quadding at 14, it's still actually a pretty decent spell if you root bomb (and grasping roots doesn't break). While it's by no means critical, and Ignite is definitely better if you're kiting, Cascade isn't totally worthless. Cascade is only sort of worthless if you're just snaring instead of rooting the mob. I guess it depends on playstyle.

The same with Befriend Animal. It's not necessary to be charm kiting at that level for sure. There are some areas where a 14 could use it though. West Commonlands, Oasis, or Karanas, for example.

Neither of those spells is totally worthless. Yes, they aren't strictly necessary. At 14, you could still pretty easily handle most blues or on-level cons by root rotting (Grasping Roots + Stinging Swarm), nuke kiting (Snare + Stinging Swarm + Ignite while running), and even by meleeing a mob to finish them off. So, I guess that you could ignore those spells if you really wanted to (or at least save them for later) but to say that they're useless is a stretch.

Interesting point. But I would expect the percentage of root breaks to be pretty decent and as such the rain spell could be a complete waste of mana if the mob moves from that spot right? Or am I thinking of a different line of spells?

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Wilshire [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cascade of Hail is actually better than Ignite in terms of damage per mana.

One problem with Cascade of Hail is that if root breaks on the first wave, the mob will run at you and the next waves won't hit it. And if you want to melee the mob to avoid that problem, then every wave will also hit you. A single cast isn't gonna kill a mob, and it has an 18 second recast time. So if you're gonna be sitting around with a rooted mob, might as well use Stinging Swarm, which is 45% more damage per mana.

The only situation where I could see it being useful is if you're in a group with someone else tanking. But in that case I'd rather spend the 62 mana on a Shield of Thistles and a Light Healing.

Have you ever used the AOE Rain spells while leveling? I used it once, realized how unhelpful it was, and never used it again. I can't think of any situations where I'd want to use them.

Oh, and Befriend Animal isn't really useful before about level 20, I think. I tried using it at lower levels and it just wasn't efficient. The mobs you'll be fighting are so close to your level that you can't expect charm to last an entire fight. And your mana pool is small enough (and snare doesn't last long enough at that level) that you won't be able to keep both animals snared the entire time. So usually halfway through the fight charm will break and you'll have two mobs coming at you unsnared, and it'll take time, mana, and health before you get the situation under control again.

Loramin's right.

[Duik]

From memory, each rain gets a save as well.
I dunno what that does to the mana/damage/save ratio though. Im sure i read a great writeup somewhere about it (wizard/mag/druid aoe various spells). Maybe its on P99.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Duik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

From memory, each rain gets a save as well.
I dunno what that does to the mana/damage/save ratio though. Im sure i read a great writeup somewhere about it (wizard/mag/druid aoe various spells). Maybe its on P99.

Would love to read that if you ever find it

[Snaggles]

Rains are pretty wacky. The only thing I’ve found them for is mana gambling or if on your mage you end up with like 4 things jumping the pet in Droga.

The higher resist rate and not being to kill a mob with one though are frustrating. Really best in a group if you want to stay awake for hours on end.

[Wilshire]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Interesting point. But I would expect the percentage of root breaks to be pretty decent and as such the rain spell could be a complete waste of mana if the mob moves from that spot right? Or am I thinking of a different line of spells?

You're correct.

I've been testing it out with my druid at 14/15. In theory, it's the best nuke I've got, and when it hits with all three waves, it's really effective against blue con mobs.

In practice, the mob either resists one of the waves or the root breaks before all three waves hit it. That wrecks the mana efficiency big time when compared to a faster casting one-shot nuke.

Which leads me to the following conclusion: It might be decent with a charmed pet or a duo partner holding the mob in place so that all three waves hit.

We're going to have to disagree on the use of Befriend Animal, though. I have been having a decent amount of success using it to charm a high green or blue mob and then use that as a pet to attack an even con. I usually have to assist my pet win, and it ends up at 25% to half health when the fight ends. Then I hit hide, break the charm, and root-rot my (former pet). Gets me two xp kills pretty easily.

I'm not sure if this way of killing two mobs at once would be more mana-efficient than just rooting both of them and dotting though. I have to test that still.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Wilshire [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're correct.

I've been testing it out with my druid at 14/15. In theory, it's the best nuke I've got, and when it hits with all three waves, it's really effective against blue con mobs.

In practice, the mob either resists one of the waves or the root breaks before all three waves hit it. That wrecks the mana efficiency big time when compared to a faster casting one-shot nuke.

Which leads me to the following conclusion: It might be decent with a charmed pet or a duo partner holding the mob in place so that all three waves hit.

We're going to have to disagree on the use of Befriend Animal, though. I have been having a decent amount of success using it to charm a high green or blue mob and then use that as a pet to attack an even con. I usually have to assist my pet win, and it ends up at 25% to half health when the fight ends. Then I hit hide, break the charm, and root-rot my (former pet). Gets me two xp kills pretty easily.

I'm not sure if this way of killing two mobs at once would be more mana-efficient than just rooting both of them and dotting though. I have to test that still.

Cool. Maybe I'll roll a lowbie Druid and do it a bunch of times just to see if there's any consistency to root break percentage.

I wasn't the one talking about Befriend Animal although for what it's worth on my Druid I didn't find it as useful as root rotting.