Change up the ZEM

[cd288]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Measuring ZEM is really, really hard.

Let's say zone A has a ZEM of 100%, zone B has a ZEM of 120%, and at your level it takes 900 XP to be able to measure anything (ie. see the XP % change). In both zones you kill mobs of the same exact level worth 360 XP.

(Now of course, you usually can't know the exact level of the mob you're killing, just whether it's blue or green con. That pretty much rules out any measurement whatsoever in most zones, because to measure, both zones require mobs that always have the exact same level. Otherwise, zone A might not have a better ZEM, but it might seem like it does because it has a higher average-level of mobs.)

But for the sake of argument, let's pretend both A and B have mobs with the same fixed level, and you kill 10 of them in each zone; your XP will increase like so:

A: 1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10
B: 1, 2, 4, 6, 7, 9

Notice that both zones have the exact same number of XP increases, and the two are identical for the first six kills! Even when there is a difference, it's only a single kill apart. If you're just casually observing, the two zones would be indistinguishable.

TLDR; IF you can find two mobs in both zones of the same consistent level, and IF you kill a lot of them (more than ten, but the exact number will vary), AND you meticulously record whether each kill increased the percentage or not ... AND you're willing to do some math ... THEN you can actually meaningfully comment on a zone's ZEM.

Otherwise, you're just kidding yourself.

Went back and re-read and Loramin explains this in much more detail than I did, and he's exactly right. Using the Kurns and FOB example, you'd need to basically take two characters of the exact same class, race, and level...you'd level one in FOB and one in Kurns for 1 level starting at the beginning of that level (i.e., 0% EXP earned). You'd have to be absolutely sure that each of those characters is killing a mob of the same level each time (tough to do that, at least in an outdoor zone where mobs will have a level range more often than they will in a dungeon IIRC, and there's no way to fully know just based on /con). And then you'd have to track how many kills it would take to go from 0% to 100% on both characters.

I think another commenter noted something else which I think is correct: When you're talking about the lower levels where you don't need as much EXP to level and where mobs don't give as much EXP per kill, a ZEM difference is going to be much less noticeable. It's going to be much closer to Loramin's A vs B example above than it would be, say, in the 40s or 50s.

And all of this is assuming the Wiki ZEMs are accurate, which we still don't definitively know. IIRC, the current percentages are based on numbers that were originally somewhat speculation. So the staff says "We increased the ZEM by X% in zone A" and we edit the Wiki, but the base number we're using we have no idea if that base number was accurate in the first place.

[loramin]

Yup [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That being said, I do have a plan for a crowd-sourced "Project ZEM". We'd start by finding a "zone zero", ie. the zone in the game with the most fixed-level mobs (a perfect zone would have a fixed level 1, level 2, ... all the way to 60 ... but since such a zone doesn't exist, we'd want the next closest).

If we then killed each fixed level mob in that zone a bunch (50 times?), we'd have a baseline. We could then calculate any zone with a fixed-level mob of the same level (as one in zone zero) by killing that mob a bunch. We could then calculate other zones, that don't overlap a zone zero mob, by using a mob of the same level in a zone that does overlap (eg. if A has 120% of zero, and B has 120% of A, we'd know B has 144% of zero).

I don't have the bandwidth (IRL) to start this project quite yet, but if anyone wants to get the ball rolling, I'd love to hear ideas for what zone would be the best "zone zero" ... ie what zone has the most (and best distribution of) fixed-level mobs?

[TomisFeline]

The fact that people aren’t leveling in old seb anymore for 55-60 is a travesty.
KC is truly garbage.

When I was active on p99 (2016/2017) Old Seb was packed with groups claiming all camps at different times - bugs, ent, ABC, disco, CE, juggs, king, there were even jabronies at the jail.

Groups would even go to charasis which is still the most wtf exp zone with the right group comp and zone knowledge.

To level in KC is to pay a constant tax, due to lack of zone knowledge, on your exp and it pales in comparison to other end game exp zones.

[TomisFeline]

Loramin -

Highpass hold or the freeports combined might be decent baseline zones. Iirc they both have quite a few killable, single level, mobs in a variety of ranges.

E.g. your tarn bearcrushers of the world
https://wiki.project1999.com/Tarn_Bearcrusher

[kjs86z2]

Originally Posted by TomisFeline [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The fact that people aren’t leveling in old seb anymore for 55-60 is a travesty.
KC is truly garbage.

When I was active on p99 (2016/2017) Old Seb was packed with groups claiming all camps at different times - bugs, ent, ABC, disco, CE, juggs, king, there were even jabronies at the jail.

Groups would even go to charasis which is still the most wtf exp zone with the right group comp and zone knowledge.

To level in KC is to pay a constant tax, due to lack of zone knowledge, on your exp and it pales in comparison to other end game exp zones.

this 100%

the average p99 player is lazy and bad, and the KC-only active leveling zone showcases that

[zelld52]

Originally Posted by kjs86z2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

this 100%

the average p99 player is lazy and bad, and the KC-only active leveling zone showcases that

Just need to get to 60 so I can soak DKP and outbid active, good players for my monk twink thst will also level in KC with barbarian legs and tuna fist.

[cd288]

I wouldn't say the average player is bad. The average player has done seb a million times. The server is mudflated so there's plenty of seb loot out there available for purchase.

So when the person is on their 6th alt, they don't see the need to go to seb.

[PatChapp]

Seb xp isn't great,but struggling through 58-60 in crypt groups you'll make some loot at least.
Travesty that the hole doesn't have groups unless you bring your own. Only benefit being it's super fun to crawl when every mob is up.
I remember being able to run from ce to docks when it was busy and not getting any agro

[loramin]

Originally Posted by TomisFeline [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Loramin -

Highpass hold or the freeports combined might be decent baseline zones. Iirc they both have quite a few killable, single level, mobs in a variety of ranges.

E.g. your tarn bearcrushers of the world
https://wiki.project1999.com/Tarn_Bearcrusher

Good suggestions. Highpass is a solid option with 25 different levels of mob, but East Freeport just beats it with 26:

Originally Posted by East Freeport Mob Levels

1: ["A stonesnake"],
3: ["Lyda Nasin"],
4: ["Lydl the Great"],
5: ["Jak Sindin"],
8: ["Olunea Miltin", "Zenita D`Rin"],
10: ["A prisoner", "Brunar Rankin", "Imxil Tbrow"],
14: ["Gren Frikniller"],
15: ["Canlan Talespinner", "Trolon Lightleer"],
16: ["Guard Fentallin"],
19: ["Gregor Nasin"],
20: ["Branis Noolright", ...],
21: ["Henna Treghost", "Tykar Renlin"],
22: ["Palatos Kynarn"],
24: ["Prasen Rusgor"],
25: ["Bait Masterson", "Fabian", "Harg Tonicka", "Palana Willin"],
28: ["Banor Raglesin", "Guard Orpheen"],
30: ["Bronto Thudfoot, "... ],
33: ["Sir Edwin Motte"],
34: ["Guard Dreikin", "Guard Xyxax", "Guard Yandellen"],
35: ["Guard Nekropo", "Guard Popal", "Lenka Stoutheart", "Tarn Bearcrusher"],
36: ["Guard Goemin"],
37: ["Guard Zeph", "Guard Zintrin"],
40: ["Guard Hirazen", "Ralfson Gerositan", "Saxarivza Zaxun"],
45: ["Ainla Yurimar", ...],
47: ["Tenni Kohern"],
50: ["Guard Chirven", ...],

However, I've been looking into other zones, and a few go even higher. Lake Rathe has 28, Ak'Anon has 29, Swamp of No Hope also has 29, and South Qeynos has a whopping 32!

Originally Posted by South Qeynos

1: ["A rodent"],
3: ["Den Magason", "Faren", "Lomarc"],
5: ["Gharin", ...],
6: ["Guard Dunix", "Guard Wenbie"],
7: ["Guard Jerith", "Guard Urius"],
8: ["Gash Flockwalker", "Guard Kwint"],
9: ["Guard Calik", "Guard Oleph"],
10: ["An investigator", ... ],
11: ["Voleen Tassen"],
13: ["Earron Huntlan"],
14: ["Menkes Tabolet"],
15: ["Guard Beren", "Nug Rellash"],
16: ["Danaria Hollin Pet", "Willie Garrote"],
18: ["Behroe Dlexon"],
20: ["Danaria Hollin", "McNeal Jocub", "Nesiff Tallaherd", "Rucio Divella"],
22: ["Lysric Loresinger", "Raffy Conticede"],
23: ["Anehan Treol"],
24: ["Hanlore Escaval"],
25: ["Dionna",... ],
26: ["Bisdlo Ravtahm", "Vicus Nonad"],
27: ["Drawna Opimsor", "Sansa Nusk"],
28: ["Caleah Herblender", "Chalea Volesga"],
30: ["Adax Rhengst",... ],
32: ["Bogen Chazel", "Daedet Losaren"],
34: ["Ghul Rustem", "Rabley Trumend"],
35: ["Bruno Barstomper", ...],
36: ["Chalios Bensted"],
37: ["Barthal"],
38: ["Khensol Undesta"],
41: ["Neapha Vesturo"],
45: [ "Bassanio Weekin",... ],
50: ["Belious Naliedin",...],

South Qeynos would seem like the best "zone zero", but it only has three 40+ options (41, 45, and 50). Lake Rathe has 4 less options overall, but it has a better spread at the high end (seven options 40+):

Originally Posted by Lake Rathe

"1": ["A fish"],
"6": ["A froglok (Lake Rathe)","An algae snake","Brundar"],
"7": ["A water snake","Grinda"],
"8": ["Hruthgar"],
"9": ["Aija","Rondel"],
"10": ["An Aqua Goblin","Jorna","Turgan"],
"11": ["Aqua goblin shaman","Deillia"],
"12": ["Tabitha"],
"13": ["Lorud"],
"15": ["Guard Rianna","Guard Treal","Gunhedra","Jonah Brucker"],
"16": ["A crocodile (Lake Rathe)","Tralinda"],
"17": ["A Gnoll Embalmer","A freshwater shark"],
"20": ["A Royal Fish"],
"22": ["Cyanelle"],
"25": ["Turga","Webclaw Murkwave"],
"26": ["Princess Lenya Thex"],
"30": ["Dunndrylla","Shmendrik Lavawalker"],
"32": ["A goblin net master"],
"35": ["Abrod","Derg","Dreana","Grud","Kyralynn","Pri nce Kyrmt Keroppi","Punga","Srynda","Trug","Vrynn"],
"36": ["Tainted Aquagoblin"],
"37": ["Kanthurn","Rykas","Taia Lyfol"],
"40": ["A Spirit of Flame","Corrupted shaman","Lord Bergurgle","Natasha Whitewater"],
"48": ["A failed apprentice"],
"49": ["Eldreth"],
"50": ["A Boat"],
"51": ["Misty Tekcihta"],
"55": ["A Bone Golem","A tortured soul","Emkel Kabae"],
"59": ["Kazen Fecae"],

So its looking like one of those two will be the best candidate ... but I'm still digging!

[TomisFeline]

Nice - sounds like a good list. I assumed the Freeports could be combined. Perhaps there is no guarantee of same zem - but that would be easy to assert.

In any case don’t forget respawn speed and ease of solo pulls when considering [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]