JBB, is it really that good?

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Minor increase in DPS with JBB

vs. 150 STR monks and casual non-twink rogues starting STA over STR

pick one

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umuVBewCNgY In this video I did 5000 damage with JBB, which is 1/6 of a Cliff Golem's life.

Silk did already address this, citing a ~17% improvement in DPS (assuming no opportunity cost), which is three or four times that as the rough estimate we produced for +20 Str on a melee.

That said, I don’t think these golems really care about kill speed.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Still waiting on a response.

Every click of JBB is 8 seconds lost that could be more productively used elsewhere. As for what to do when you have unspent time on your most important tasks (keeping it slowed/debuffed, refreshing dots, healing yourself, and casting canni) … click your epic! When fighting big ass nasty mobs, those other priorities are so high that I often find my epic dot will have worn off many ticks before I have a spare moment to refresh.

JBB really is such a minor contribution that it doesn’t really fit well into the crap that needs to get done with finite time to get it done in.

The cool thing about the shaman class is that they are so incredibly overpowered that you can be successful even using the JBB or otherwise playing inefficiently.

DSM is the poster child for this phenomenon apparently.

There's no response needed. I've addressed these points and your math post points multiple times. You need to read the thread.

If you are unable to re-apply your Epic buff every time it wears off on a tough mob, that simply shows you aren't very efficient with your spell usage. That is an issue with your playstyle, not an issue with JBB.

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Silk did already address this, citing a ~17% improvement in DPS (assuming no opportunity cost), which is three or four times that as the rough estimate we produced for +20 Str on a melee.

Correct.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you are unable to re-apply your Epic buff every time it wears off on a tough mob, that simply shows you aren't very efficient with your spell usage.

In order of importance:

1. Stay alive
2. Maintain debuffs (see above)
3. Apply damage

Failure at 1 makes the rest irrelevant. Failure at 2 increases the likelihood of failure at 1. Any efforts made at 3 imply you are winning at 1 and 2.

When it comes to the application of damage, Bane is >36 dps for a single 5 second cast. EB is 26.6 dps for a single 6.1 second cast. Pox is 19.33dps for a 5 second cast. Epic is a back loaded (most of the damage comes in the last third of its duration) 15.83 dps for a 9 second cast.

So yeah I don’t sweat it if I lose a couple of ticks of mana-free epic dot between refreshes because it does have the least returns on time investment.

Then again, maybe I don’t sweat it because I have plenty of mana because I’m not wasting my time clicking an 8 sec JBB?

Food for thought.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In order of importance:

1. Stay alive
2. Maintain debuffs (see above)
3. Apply damage

Failure at 1 makes the rest irrelevant. Failure at 2 increases the likelihood of failure at 1. Any efforts made at 3 imply you are winning at 1 and 2.

When it comes to the application of damage, Bane is >36 dps for a single 5 second cast. EB is 26.6 dps for a single 6.1 second cast. Pox is 19.33dps for a 5 second cast. Epic is a back loaded (most of the damage comes in the last third of its duration) 15.83 dps for a 9 second cast.

So yeah I don’t sweat it if I lose a couple of ticks of mana-free epic dot between refreshes because it does have the least returns on time investment.

Then again, maybe I don’t sweat it because I have plenty of mana because I’m not wasting my time clicking an 8 sec JBB?

Food for thought.

I don't sweat it either. You simply don't have a good enough rotation, so you can't fit as much in. Improve that and you might see some JBB usage! You can do Epic, JBB, survival, debuffs and damage.

[unsunghero]

I used to think enc biggest nuke at 650ish dmg was big, until I saw Druids last fire nuke does 1k. Now enchanter nuke feels tiny. Haven’t even looked up wizard’s or mage’s biggest. Already have enough nuke size envy

Whatever JBB does is fooking tiny. Even enchanter’s 650dmg nuke is like a tiny tiny sliver of level 50+ mob’s heath. I’ve had to do like 3 of them to take a 50+ mob from 15% health to dead

[Evia]

the benefit of the jbb isnt how much dmg it does, its that its mana free.
i see what both sides of the coin are saying about the jbb
but as a shaman myself I will never sell mine. i tried doing that once to fund my epic and i just missed having it in a pinch or to just speed burn something or kill lower lvl mobs when farming. I ended up re-buying it and figuring out how to mq the childs tear and still keep it.

its not the best item in the world, and it does have its issues, but a free 283DD is a free 283DD. not too many classes (if any?) can boast that.

[Balladin]

Originally Posted by Evia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the benefit of the jbb isnt how much dmg it does, its that its mana free.
i see what both sides of the coin are saying about the jbb
but as a shaman myself I will never sell mine. i tried doing that once to fund my epic and i just missed having it in a pinch or to just speed burn something or kill lower lvl mobs when farming. I ended up re-buying it and figuring out how to mq the childs tear and still keep it.

its not the best item in the world, and it does have its issues, but a free 283DD is a free 283DD. not too many classes (if any?) can boast that.

Yeah I know that feeling. You only realize how good it is when you don't have it.

So back to the question: is it really that good? Yes! for 15k-20k it definitely is.
IMO:
Epic>JBB>Pox>Bane

If you can get an Epic,don't bother with a jbb. But remember the Epic spear cost like 100k (if got it ezpz from your guild be appreciative of that ok...ok).
I used to think Bane and pox was better but in practice those spells are really mana-expensive. I'm telling you; recovering your mana (canni-torp) after 4 resist of bane and pox from a maloed mob is a real PIA (you're spell will fizzle alot). So i end up just letting the pet do the dmg, spamming jbb and keep all my mana to re-slow and torp.

But maybe I'm just bad at the doing the shaman stuff.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Evia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the benefit of the jbb isnt how much dmg it does, it’s that it’s mana free.

It’s “free” sub 60 but with Torp it’s an opportunity cost. There are other things someone can do with that time. Like make more mana while waiting for dots and torp to run its course.

What people are failing to grasp is that time is a finite resource. Player clicks are often less than robotically perfect. Even if you could script the perfect rotation, which you can’t and it’s not legal anyways, I can’t imagine how you could fit in a JBB with efficiency. Simply look at Bane…it does 6x the damage and is a 3 second quicker cast. Torp heals for approximately 5x the DD of a JBB and is also a second quicker. This is math, not creative writing class…

If someone here can manipulate time and space I hope they are finding something better to do with that super power than sneaking in a 268dd click on an elf sim.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It’s “free” sub 60 but with Torp it’s an opportunity cost. There are other things someone can do with that time. Like make more mana while waiting for dots and torp to run its course.

What people are failing to grasp is that time is a finite resource. Player clicks are often less than robotically perfect. Even if you could script the perfect rotation, which you can’t and it’s not legal anyways, I can’t imagine how you could fit in a JBB with efficiency. Simply look at Bane…it does 6x the damage and is a 3 second quicker cast. Torp heals for approximately 5x the DD of a JBB and is also a second quicker. This is math, not creative writing class…

If someone here can manipulate time and space I hope they are finding something better to do with that super power than sneaking in a 268dd click on an elf sim.

The concept people are failing to grasp is HP and Mana
are finite. You are assuming you always have the HP/Mana to cannibalize or DoT.

When fighting hard mobs this isn't always the case. You can get damage spiked and then have to wait 3 Torpor ticks to get back to safe levels. If all your DoTs and debuffs are applied, you have nothing to do since you cannot cannibalize. You can JBB in that time with no opportunity cost.

JBB is also not very high on hate generation. In my cliff golem video https://youtu.be/umuVBewCNgY?feature=shared JBB was how I was able to keep my pet on the top of the hate list. If I was spamming Bane/Pox, I would need to face tank the cliff golem. With the changes to poison/disease hate generation this may not be as big of an issue, but this is another use case if you want to have your pet tank.

JBB is also useful at 60 for clearing trash mobs.

There are plenty of uses for it. Please stop telling people JBB isn't good at 60. You simply haven't played a Shaman enough.

I also noticed you haven't done anything with those Ionat logs.

[Snaggles]

Edit: where are the logs? This another example of your gaslighting or did you actually post them?