Bard Starting Stat Debate Time, You Nerds

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I created a test Magelo with BiS gear. It is a human since they start with 85 DEX and 85 CHA. This means it is easy to see what stat is higher after you apply gear. I put 12 points into DEX, 12 points into CHA, and 1 point into STR (just to avoid having DEX or CHA being higher).

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_...rdVeliousBiS01

As I thought, CHA is the harder stat to cap with BiS gear, so I would dump into CHA during character creation. a Human's STA is 246 pre-buffed, so dumping into STA would end up being a waste. CHA is like 50 points behind DEX. At 172 CHA, you would still end up being under 200 CHA pre-buffed. Bards may switch to different instruments other than epic in certain situations, so stats will change a bit based on what instrument you are using. Even taking that into account, you aren't going to be in a situation where CHA becomes higher than DEX.

Epic never comes off it goes in offhand, swap weapon in primary for drum for debuffing or selos , drums of beast means ya never have to unequip epic. Ya stats still change but no ya epic stays on

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Epic never comes off it goes in offhand, swap weapon in primary for drum for debuffing or selos , drums of beast means ya never have to unequip epic. Ya stats still change but no ya epic stays on

Ah thanks for that clarification. But yeah that was basically my point, your stat's aren't going to change drastically by swapping instruments. In BiS gear CHA is going to be much farther behind DEX, and STA will be high enough to be capped by buffs. So CHA is probably the best choice as the stat to dump your starting points into.

[ya.dingus]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I created a test Magelo with BiS gear. It is a human since they start with 85 DEX and 85 CHA. This means it is easy to see what stat is higher after you apply gear. I put 12 points into DEX, 12 points into CHA, and 1 point into STR (just to avoid having DEX or CHA being higher).

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_...rdVeliousBiS01

As I thought, CHA is the harder stat to cap with BiS gear, so I would dump into CHA during character creation. A Human's STA is 246 pre-buffed, so dumping into STA would end up being a waste. CHA is like 50 points behind DEX. At 172 CHA, you would still end up being under 200 CHA pre-buffed after dumping 25 points into it. Bards may switch to different instruments other than epic in certain situations, so stats will change a bit based on what instrument you are using. Even taking that into account, you aren't going to be in a situation where CHA becomes higher than DEX.

Obviously people in non-BiS gear will have more variation in what their stats are, but generally speaking the trend with Velious era gear for melee classes is a focus on melee stats (STR, STA, DEX, AGI), and less focus on WIS, INT, and CHA.

This man over here doing the lord's work. Well done. Adding this to the archive for actual min/max options on bard creation.

Well done.

[Duik]

Add to wiki newb pages as well.
Gods work must mean math > resist > hp > the rest.
Yes, because everyone has and WILL get BIS gear. Ya Dingus. YDG Ya Din Gus
At least ya got one thing correct.

[ya.dingus]

Originally Posted by Duik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Add to wiki newb pages as well.
Gods work must mean math > resist > hp > the rest.
Yes, because everyone has and WILL get BIS gear. Ya Dingus. YDG Ya Din Gus
At least ya got one thing correct.

Yes because we should consider non-min max options in a min max discussion.

Someone is salty for being wrong.

That's okay though, I love dunking on mouth breathing boomers all day, and this forum is in no short supply of them. I'm like the larry bird of forum post trash talk. I live for it.

If you don't have the maths, you don't have room to talk.

Despite our disagreements, Misty is like the only person I legitimately respect on these forums.That's saying a lot, because I don't hold many if any of you in high regard, if at all.

Shout out to Misty for the work.

[pink grapefruit]

Originally Posted by ya.dingus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do any of you have an actual source better than the links and stats I have provided?

Like, do ANY of you have empirical evidence?

It's a simple yes or no.

if you want empirical evidence you should be getting in contact with some bards here. should be pretty easy to test the impact of dex and cha. dex is useful, but i don't think it's useful for the reason you want it to be.

i've yet to see any empirical evidence that missed notes or twisting songs results in carpal implosion. and missed notes happen immediately (at the start of a song) and cost no mana. they're a minor annoyance more than something that is super detrimental to a bard's performance.

when you get your epic though you're gonna want all the dex you can get.

[Crede]

People throw around BiS like it’s the equivalent in ease of killing an orc pawn. most people just don’t even get remotely close. It’s a shitload of dkp and you’re better off just spreading that around multiple characters. Cha is technically the min max for wars too, but no war is putting their starting stats in cha.

Cha is not a waste as a bard but know that you’re missing out on 100 hp for probably the lifetime of your character since 99.9% of bards are not getting bis including ya dingus.

[ya.dingus]

Originally Posted by pink grapefruit [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if you want empirical evidence you should be getting in contact with some bards here. should be pretty easy to test the impact of dex and cha. dex is useful, but i don't think it's useful for the reason you want it to be.

i've yet to see any empirical evidence that missed notes or twisting songs results in carpal implosion. and missed notes happen immediately (at the start of a song) and cost no mana. they're a minor annoyance more than something that is super detrimental to a bard's performance.

when you get your epic though you're gonna want all the dex you can get.

It's the ben franklin saying. Penny saved is a penny earned.

Play a bard over two years, and your button presses will be well over in the tens of thousands for missed notes.

This is literally a case that a minor change in the short term, is a major saving in the long term.


Though as Misty said, still harder to get CHA long term than Dex. So the Min/Max option clearly is dumping points into CHA.

[Borak]

In any event, if we're talking about BIS or striving for BIS, you won't put points into DEX because odds are, you'll have a primal in your bag before you reach BIS. Once you proc avatar, your DEX goes up 100. I'm geared fairly well but not BIS, and once avatar procs, STR AGI DEX all hit 255.

The most important thing to do, if you haven't committed yet, is to choose human. It's a bit late for me to reroll but if I could I'd choose human for the most important reason - when you click halfling mask and then proc avatar, you become a barbarian sized halfling. I'm stuck at human sized halfling because I rolled wood elf. Learn from my mistake!

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Borak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In any event, if we're talking about BIS or striving for BIS, you won't put points into DEX because odds are, you'll have a primal in your bag before you reach BIS. Once you proc avatar, your DEX goes up 100. I'm geared fairly well but not BIS, and once avatar procs, STR AGI DEX all hit 255.

The most important thing to do, if you haven't committed yet, is to choose human. It's a bit late for me to reroll but if I could I'd choose human for the most important reason - when you click halfling mask and then proc avatar, you become a barbarian sized halfling. I'm stuck at human sized halfling because I rolled wood elf. Learn from my mistake!

Human basically min max fashion for every class!