Charming Misconceptions

[Ivah]

Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OP is a retarded person and there are 9 posts above this one explaining why, but I'll delve in myself for no good reason at all.



So charm it from elsewhere, pull more mobs, or you know.... kill it when you've run out of mobs.


So charm it from elsewhere, or you know.... kill it when you've run out of mobs.



If you're bad at your class, I can see this being an issue, but an actual enchanter above level 16 will take minimal damage from a recharm and the healer should have no reason to struggle. If you can't handle your pet, you just get a weaker one. A mob 10 levels lower than you will likely out damage the rogue in your group.



Once again, is this from the perspective of someone who doesn't know how to play his class? Enchanting is about preparation, situational awareness, and timing. I agree that if you are moron, you shouldn't be trying to do both, but if you've made it to level 50 and you're CCing at Verix, you should definitely be able to keep a pet up. If not, go practice soloing somewhere so you can actually contribute.





You can easily afk, theres a nifty spell called root and another one called memblur. Getting rid of your pet takes 7-10 seconds at best.




Charming does not require as much space as you seem to think. You have an incredible arsenal of CC at your disposal, if your pets are getting through your runes even with 5 mobs cc'd in the background, you need to sort out your spell bar.
The benefits are astronomical, a charmed pet is an amazing off tank that can generally solo a mob by itself. A decent pet at the level you describe would be doing nearly double the DPS of any rogue the same level, and you get free xp when it runs low on health.


Overall I would say this enchanter is either level 15 or purchased his character on crimson walkthroughs.

1 star

Thx for making thread readable I skipped over it yesterday

[thebutthat]

Originally Posted by Diogene [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How to turn down a legit thread into a shit fest.
100% nerd rage. Stupid kids. I remember about a year or two the very same thread popped up, consensus was different. People kindly agreed charming would ideally be situational and when groups were expecting it as if it was mandatory, these were just outplaying it. Now, I'm not here to say they were right or wrong, but they were at least more civilized. Why in the hell do we need to name OP as if he was retarded ? He's obviously not and I'm sure he made some points. Now the consensus is : OP is a moron, he needs to play something else. OMG, this just make the server community looks retarded.

min/max or gtfo

[aaezil]

Originally Posted by Diogene [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OMG, this just make the server community looks retarded.

[Ivah]

Originally Posted by Diogene [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How to turn down a legit thread into a shit fest.
100% nerd rage. Stupid kids. I remember about a year or two the very same thread popped up, consensus was different. People kindly agreed charming would ideally be situational and when groups were expecting it as if it was mandatory, these were just outplaying it. Now, I'm not here to say they were right or wrong, but they were at least more civilized. Why in the hell do we need to name OP as if he was retarded ? He's obviously not and I'm sure he made some points. Now the consensus is : OP is a moron, he needs to play something else. OMG, this just make the server community looks retarded.

"This just MAKE the server community LOOKS retarded"?! Sry buddy you just did it yourself

[Diogene]

Originally Posted by Ivah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"This just MAKE the server community LOOKS retarded"?! Sry buddy you just did it yourself

We are not all native english speakers if you are referring about grammar problems, but thanks for the heads up.

[Izmael]

Originally Posted by fash [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Keep up double runes and develop some situational awareness so charm breaks don't have time to land multiple rounds on you.

Runes do not block stuns, if a stun lands on you on that first round from the pet, you will take more melee rounds from him, even if you think very highly of your chanting skills.

Your fastest stun takes 1 second to cast - a high level hasted pet has well under 1 second delay between melee rounds.

Bedlam + Rune V is 950 hp. If your pet quads for 180 or more, thats one round from your pet and its target. 0,5 seconds later, your pet is eating through your HP, while you are just starting to cast your stun (which can be resisted, interrupted, or you can get summoned again if your pet and target are both summoners).

If you aren't charming because you think the group is subpar, you're just making the group worse.

Sure, crack, haste and CC makes a subpar group worse.

[Ivah]

Originally Posted by Diogene [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We are not all native english speakers if you are referring about grammar problems, but thanks for the heads up.

Change that avatar plz. Does not match that sense of humor.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Izmael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Runes do not block stuns, if a stun lands on you on that first round from the pet, you will take more melee rounds from him, even if you think very highly of your chanting skills.

Your fastest stun takes 1 second to cast - a high level hasted pet has well under 1 second delay between melee rounds.

Bedlam + Rune V is 950 hp. If your pet quads for 180 or more, thats one round from your pet and its target. 0,5 seconds later, your pet is eating through your HP, while you are just starting to cast your stun (which can be resisted, interrupted, or you can get summoned again if your pet and target are both summoners).






Sure, crack, haste and CC makes a subpar group worse.

Does ogre illusion grant fsi? I rarely see a blob enc, but perhaps it is worth it?

[Izmael]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Does ogre illusion grant fsi? I rarely see a blob enc, but perhaps it is worth it?

Don't think it does, though I never tested it thoroughly.

Also when you get summoned, the mob kinda has your back - double backstab for 700+ from named spiders in Velk immediately upon summon are a painful proof.

[Lowako]

Originally Posted by Izmael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Runes do not block stuns, if a stun lands on you on that first round from the pet, you will take more melee rounds from him, even if you think very highly of your chanting skills.

Your fastest stun takes 1 second to cast - a high level hasted pet has well under 1 second delay between melee rounds.

Bedlam + Rune V is 950 hp. If your pet quads for 180 or more, thats one round from your pet and its target. 0,5 seconds later, your pet is eating through your HP, while you are just starting to cast your stun (which can be resisted, interrupted, or you can get summoned again if your pet and target are both summoners).





Sure, crack, haste and CC makes a subpar group worse.

Apologizing in advance for a disorganized post that rambles on as I'm quite tired, but I think I convey my point pretty well.

If you have a shitty, slow killing group, charming a pet is usually going to be better than hasting your shitty group members. Also, you can position your character in a way so that you can start casting stun/mez before your pet gets back into melee range of you. Even if you charm summoning stuff in a group, you just have to make an effort to not let your pet tank stuff to avoid putting it in summoning range.

The reason why people see charming as mandatory these days is because even a mediocre charmed pet is worth like 2 monks/rangers/shitty rogues worth of DPS, or greater than or equal to 1 Good Rogue's worth of DPS. To call a charmed pet a marginal benefit in a 6 man group is a massive understatement. Lets look at a theoretical situation for a typical group. You have 6 people, a Warrior, 2 Rogues, a Cleric, an Enchanter, and a Monk that is pulling. Lets assume the rogues are buffed and have epic, and the combined DPS of the warrior and pulling monk combined is worth about 1 buffed epic rogue of DPS. Your group is doing on average, 3 Good Rogues worth of DPS. Add a charmed pet to that mix, now you'll have roughly 4 Good Rogues worth of DPS. Thats a 33% increase to your groups kill speed. I wouldn't call that a marginal gain, and that is in a pretty high DPS group.

Lets look at another theoretical group. One that isn't quite as optimized. You have an SK tank, a cleric, a non-epic Rogue, a Ranger, an enchanter, and a Monk that is pulling. Oh no, this group of players lacks key items like epics to help them deal damage, or naturally does less damage because of their class. It's not unreasonable to assume that this group is only going to do 2 Good Rogues worth of DPS. Add a charmed pet to this clown fiesta of adventurers who consider wooden cooking spoons viable weaponry and now you have 3 Good Rogues worth of DPS. That's a 50% boost to your groups kill speed. That's a pretty big deal.

An enchanter with no charmed pet adds about 1 group member worth of value. An enchanter with a charmed pet adds about 2-3 group members worth of value. If you're only bringing half potential to a group, people most likely won't want to group with you in the future regardless of the class you play. An enchanter that keeps their group buffed, maintains a charmed pet, and helps deal with adds isn't some kind of myth or feat that requires superhuman play. People have used charm pets solo and in groups at every level range to great effect.

side note, if your puller is consistently training your group with 4+ mobs you need to tell them to stop being a walking trash bin and bring in singles/doubles.