Cheating everywhere, GMs???

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by zati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Guild A starts an instance kills Dragon A - Starts a spawn timer

Guild B starts an instance kills same Dragon A - Starts their own separate spawn timer

Both can be done at anytime at will.? P99 isn't instanced only 1 Dragon spawns for the entire server.

Guild A kills Dragon A starts the timer... Guild A/B/C/D/E/F/G must wait on the same spawntimer for dragon to spawn. DKP is actually comprised on this and isn't only within your own guild.

Pretty bold but I'm not sure if you understand correctly. TLP instances have respawn timers last I checked. It isn't like WoW you can load a dungeon over and over and over.

It doesn't matter about the nitty gritty details on spawn timers. Instances are the same concept as a rotation. The whole purpose of rotations/instancing is to allow a player or group of players uncontested access to the content. The only difference is the frequency by which you can access the content. Typically instancing is faster than rotations, especially if classic timers were kept, but that is the only difference.

DKP is exclusive to a single guild both on P99 and TLP. Unless the guild allows you to transfer DKP from an old guild, you can only use DKP in the guild you are in. I am not sure where you are getting this information that DKP is shared.

[ClephNote]

Someone give this man a pity Vulak.

[Twochain]

Originally Posted by zati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You seem very emotionally about it,but EQ staring at a screen for 16hrs straight waiting for a mob knowing when it spawns, knowing its exact location, using third party programs to assist(gina,discord) isn't competition. It's just pixel illness at that point to justify said behaviors. You act as if you "require another entity" in EQ to feel some sort of advancement and took my OoT out of context. You know those racers are playing versus "time" right? Ofc they post their timed runs and compare it to others online to see who is the fastest; but again they are playing in an "instanced environment". Raid end game scene is mostly like that now but the competition is still TIME (hitting the mob first in the most ridiculously way possible).

Take trakanon for example. You guys got a mage sitting on the hill for hours looking thru a wall listening to music and chatting on discord waiting for the mob to spawn so he can send off a batphone. Other 30-50 individuals are sitting at their desks staring at their character screens to hit "enter world" half aren't even gonna get summoned and they know it just to collect DKP. Your "Competition" is also doing the same thing yet the sole deciding factor of who wins is whoever can hit CoTH the quickest and most rogues available made it in the lair(Cause it might be 3 am!). God that's really competitive, required lots of skill, glitching, accumulation of years of expansive knowledge.........Yeah bud, Like I said EQ isn't not an E-sport, Hope this helps.

Idk if emotional is the right word. Passionate yes. But you're talking to a raider who has been under 10% for 2 years. Nor am i someone who has the attention span to stare at a screen for 16 hours. I'm also the person who shouts from the mountain tops that all races should be roll offs for the entire window because screen staring is bad.

IDK, Bud, but in the 6 years that i've raided on this server... nvm. I don't even know who you are, i'm not going to argue with you.

You seem mad, I am not mad. Hope this helps.

[zati]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It doesn't matter about the nitty gritty details on spawn timers. Instances are the same concept as a rotation. The whole purpose of rotations/instancing is to allow a player or group of players uncontested access to the content. The only difference is the frequency by which you can access the content. Typically instancing is faster than rotations, especially if classic timers were kept, but that is the only difference.

DKP is exclusive to a single guild both on P99 and TLP. Unless the guild allows you to transfer DKP from an old guild, you can only use DKP in the guild you are in. I am not sure where you are getting this information that DKP is shared.

Agree with most if not all of what you say here except "DKP is shared" never said that.. I said it would be compromised. The flaw is through rotations there's less reason to implement DKP sources because of the uncontested access to content. There wouldn't be a reason for people to waste their time to acquire dkp standing at a race line and or tracking zones at 3am.

Ya still didn't answer why P99 would result in a mass exodus if rotations were implemented besides look "Look at TLP! See what happend to them?" That's weak evidence IMO. Like a scare tactic, spreading FUD to maintain a broken raid scene "doing this kills the server!"

[zati]

Originally Posted by Twochain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Idk if emotional is the right word. Passionate yes. But you're talking to a raider who has been under 10% for 2 years. Nor am i someone who has the attention span to stare at a screen for 16 hours. I'm also the person who shouts from the mountain tops that all races should be roll offs for the entire window because screen staring is bad.

IDK, Bud, but in the 6 years that i've raided on this server... nvm. I don't even know who you are, i'm not going to argue with you.

You seem mad, I am not mad. Hope this helps.

You're good, I wasn't trying to argue with u to begin with. Definitely passionate about EQ no doubt about that. I don't even raid anymore either. Screen staring is unhealthy / unnecessary and it shouldn't be a thing for future raiders that's all I'm tryna get at. Solutions to it get thrown out the window but w/e. I ain't mad and I'm glad you aren't either.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by zati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Agree with most if not all of what you say here except "DKP is shared" never said that.. I said it would be compromised. The flaw is through rotations there's less reason to implement DKP sources because of the uncontested access to content. There wouldn't be a reason for people to waste their time to acquire dkp standing at a race line and or tracking zones at 3am.

Ya still didn't answer why P99 would result in a mass exodus if rotations were implemented besides look "Look at TLP! See what happend to them?" That's weak evidence IMO. Like a scare tactic, spreading FUD to maintain a broken raid scene "doing this kills the server!"

Ah it seems you spelled compromised "comprised", so I read your post wrong. Thanks for clarifying.

DKP would still be necessary in a Rotation/Instance. Why? Because it is the best way to incentivize people to show up. You can't kill a dragon with 2 players. DKP is basically the acknowledgement that you participated in the raid, and thus get compensation. Doing /random or something similar is usually a guaranteed way to bleed good players, because inevitably one guy who goes to every raid keeps getting shafted on the item he wants by a new player lucking out and winning the roll.

Oh the reason why people would leave P99 with a rotation is pretty obvious, and supported by years of TLP data. With instancing, more items drop per week than with a non-instanced game. If there are 10 guilds who can do Vulak weekly, you are getting 10x Vulak kills a week on the server. This means players will get all of the loot they want literally 10x faster, and then they lose interest. Keeping items rare extends play time.

For rotations, assuming regular timers are kept, people would stop playing during the time between raids. If you have 10 guilds in a rotation for Vulak, that means you get to kill Vulak once every 10 weeks. So those players will just stop playing for 9 weeks at a time lol. Both situations kill the population.

[zati]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ah it seems you spelled compromised "comprised", so I read your post wrong. Thanks for clarifying.

DKP would still be necessary in a Rotation/Instance. Why? Because it is the best way to incentivize people to show up. You can't kill a dragon with 2 players. DKP is basically the acknowledgement that you participated in the raid, and thus get compensation. Doing /random or something similar is usually a guaranteed way to bleed good players, because inevitably one guy who goes to every raid keeps getting shafted on the item he wants by a new player lucking out and winning the roll.

Oh the reason why people would leave P99 with a rotation is pretty obvious, and supported by years of TLP data. With instancing, more items drop per week than with a non-instanced game. If there are 10 guilds who can do Vulak weekly, you are getting 10x Vulak kills a week on the server. This means players will get all of the loot they want literally 10x faster, and then they lose interest. Keeping items rare extends play time.

For rotations, assuming regular timers are kept, people would stop playing during the time between raids. If you have 10 guilds in a rotation for Vulak, that means you get to kill Vulak once every 10 weeks. So those players will just stop playing for 9 weeks at a time lol. Both situations kill the population.

Right on. Good eye on that typo. Can't edit posts apparently. I would be against instancing for sure 100%. Lowers the value of existing items or the perception of it. Only thing I am skeptical about is the rotation hurting the population ; that seems to be the most common attitude towards it. Even when 7 day spawns are up people log in to level-up alts regardless what mobs are currently in window. Vulak isn't the only mob in game and affects maybe a handful of players. Hardcore raiders have more than an average of 5 lvl 60 toons or more and are willing to make alts-guilds to reenter a list. Think about that unhealthy habit for just a moment..

[mycoolrausch]

P99 is a case study in the importance of instancing. Though I don't think anyone needs the lesson, the only people who dislike instancing on planet earth are all here.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by zati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right on. Good eye on that typo. Can't edit posts apparently. I would be against instancing for sure 100%. Lowers the value of existing items or the perception of it. Only thing I am skeptical about is the rotation hurting the population ; that seems to be the most common attitude towards it. Even when 7 day spawns are up people log in to level-up alts regardless what mobs are currently in window. Vulak isn't the only mob in game and affects maybe a handful of players. Hardcore raiders have more than an average of 5 lvl 60 toons or more and are willing to make alts-guilds to reenter a list. Think about that unhealthy habit for just a moment..

Yeah I am super annoyed about Rants and Flames not allowing edit functionality.

Unfortunately a lot of mobs are on 7 day timers, not just Vulak. So any player who wants loot from a 7 day spawn is going to have to wait 10 weeks per cycle if 10 guilds are in the rotation. That is probably too much for even P99 raiders to handle. If you only get 5 attempts to kill a 7 day spawn per year, there is a good chance the mob won't even drop the item you want. People will stop playing for weeks at a time while waiting.

Even casual raiders (who just want to get their epics) would need to wait like 5 weeks per chance at getting golems if those were rotated. Probably more since smaller guilds can do them too, so your rotation number would increase. So you are scaring off both casual and hardcore raiders this way.

Regular players who don't raid may not be affected, and they are a good chunk of the server, but I still feel it is unhealthy population-wise to basically turn off a few hundred players for weeks at a time while they are waiting.

I think rotations would only work if they decreased the mob spawn timers, but the more you do that the closer it gets to approaching TLP levels of raid kills per week, and thus you will have the problem with instanced servers. That is why I don't think we can ever find a good solution via Rotations or Instancing.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by SantagarBrax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For the few people saying "Classic Everquest wasn't competitive", you're just not accepting the reality.

The entire game, in the "Classic" era and all the way through PoP, was designed to be competitive.

Every single aspect of this game is competitive, by its very nature, then you add a time locked server and that design will naturally magnify. This is the natural evolution of what "Classic" would have been had Smedley and company decided to take their time and not kill the game with half-assed and quick release expansion drops with little to no meaningful content. That was the number one factor and final nail in the coffin which every player on live could see, clear as day.

I can't believe there are people that have played here for years and don't recognize that this game, in era, has always been and will always be competitive. If you don't like competition, then you're playing the wrong game and/or server.

Stop your bitching and moaning at the owners of this server and those that work to facilitate and enjoy this goal immensely in an attempt to go against the very essence of what a successful Everquest was, and what Project 1999 is.

Sorry to detour your cheating dialogue, please continue.

This post reeks of P99 brain rot. If you're told a lie often enough you'll believe anything I guess. Everquest raiding wasn't designed to be competitive. You're literally an insane person if you actually believe that. Not having the technology to implement instances in 1999 is NOT the same thing as saying "We intend for mentally ill neckbeards to stare at their monitor for 16 hours waiting for a pixel giant to spawn so they can run their pre-practiced race path to FTE it before anyone else every week"

You're aware many live servers had GM enforced raid rotations in classic right? They implemented instances literally as quickly as was technologically feasible for them to do so because it was pretty much immediately obvious how toxic and bad open world "competition" for raid targets was.

That said I'm not condoning rotations on P99. They wouldn't be a great solution here for reasons already well known and stated. The aforementioned mentally ill neckbeards would make splinter alt guilds to clog up rotation and it would be a mess. Only way it would work is if you set a hard limit on number of guilds that could be in rotation and force everyone to join one of x number of guilds that have a rotation slot if they want to raid. As awful as that sounds it'd honestly be better than the bullshit that goes on currently but that's besides the point.


Lol @ actually thinking EQ devs built the game for competitive PvE raiding. I'm still chucklin over here. Thanks for that.