Iksar Shaman - Solo Challenges?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

30 seconds is a lot of time for things to go wrong in a raid.

Except anytime a pull is live you would already be at full HP/Mana when playing properly, and the raid is working properly.

Raids do not do buff sessions extremely close to an important pull. If you are in a situation where the raid must fast pull an important mob and you need to be at full HP/Mana, you don't do the buff session hehe.

I show buff sessions to show where Regen would provide the largest bonus, which is still nothing because of what I said above.

[Troxx]

Regen provides benefit 100% of the time you are not 100% hp

-FSI provides 0 benefit anytime you are not actively being hit by a mob.
-The benefit is small when you are being hit at baseline and even smaller if the mob is slowed.
-The benefit is also only present when a bash lands (25% every 8 seconds mob unslowed) and that landed bash results in a stun (25% of landed bashes).

0.25 x 0.25 = 0.0625 = 6.25% chance every 8 seconds UNSLOWED

For the bash to even matter at all it has to land while you are casting a spell

***And beyond that, for it to “actually matter” it has to happen at a moment in time that the interruption had a meaningful outcome on success vs failure***

Being stunned is annoying but it has to *** to really mean anything at all.

Napkin math is cute but the second you start to apply real world filters and activate that abstract thinking part of your brain, you realize quickly that the likelihood of all that happening is exceedingly low.

Compared to 100% benefit 100% of the time you’re not 100% health for the entire life of your character on a class that turns hp into mana.

[Naethyn]

We cannot declare another race bis because then all the bad players who think they are min maxing will start to play that like ogre warriors and iksar monks.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Regen provides benefit 100% of the time you are not 100% hp

-FSI provides 0 benefit anytime you are not actively being hit by a mob.
-The benefit is small when you are being hit at baseline and even smaller if the mob is slowed.
-The benefit is also only present when a bash lands (25% every 8 seconds mob unslowed) and that landed bash results in a stun (25% of landed bashes).

0.25 x 0.25 = 0.0625 = 6.25% chance every 8 seconds UNSLOWED

For the bash to even matter at all it has to land while you are casting a spell

***And beyond that, for it to “actually matter” it has to happen at a moment in time that the interruption had a meaningful outcome on success vs failure***

Being stunned is annoying but it has to *** to really mean anything at all.

Napkin math is cute but the second you start to apply real world filters and activate that abstract thinking part of your brain, you realize quickly that the likelihood of all that happening is exceedingly low.

Compared to 100% benefit 100% of the time you’re not 100% health for the entire life of your character on a class that turns hp into mana.

Rehashing points that have been disproven with hard evidence or shown to be irrelevant will not help you.

Claiming all math is irrelevant is nonsense.

Accusing people of being autistic just makes you look bad.

For people interested in facts and real data, please see this post: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=311

[Jimjam]

Please show your proof that FSI provides benefit when you aren't being hit by a mob? That is a really interesting claim.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please show your proof that FSI provides benefit when you aren't being hit by a mob? That is a really interesting claim.

I never said FSI provides benefit while not getting hit. Please stop making stuff up. Regen also provides no benefit when at 100% HP. That was why I said "shown to be irrelevant" in my previous post. I don't need to keep rebutting Troxx's points line by line, I've done it so many times already.

The facts about when racials activate do not elevate one racial over the other. You look at what benefits are being provided when they are active. Regen's benefit is much smaller, which is why FSI wins out. You get more use out of FSI when it is active than Regen on a Torpor Shaman. I have plenty of evidence to back this up, which has yet to be disproven.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=311

[Troxx]

Unless there’s a lot of down time, I don’t bother keeping my health fully 100% just for the sake of being 100% hp. Capitalizing on that continuous regen means I literally do not have to torpor as often or canni back the mana spent from casting said torpor.

If I’m casually soloing, why bother. Let the regen do its thing and save some torpor casts (mana cost and time spent casting). It’s mana that could be spent on buffs, debuffs, dotting, etc. It’s the same with grouping 99% of the time. I’ll canni to keep the spells rolling but unless it’s dangerous to do so, I won’t bother with torpor until I know I will get the full scope of the heal and still be under 100%.

For routine play I spend most of my time not at 100% health.

If I have nothing better to do with my time? No spells to cast or other actions to take? Well … there is value in doing nothing! Sit my fat ass down and double my regen or get some med ticks in. Shamans (like bards) can be a very busy, very high APM class to play. There is value in just giving yourself a break.

The only times I’m OCD about staying topped off fully and clicking furiously with super high APM is when I’m soloing something challenging or my group/raid’s needs demand it.

Best lesson I learned as a leveling troll shaman? Never (ever) be full health unless you’re also full mana. Never be full mana if there is a buff you could refresh now (while full) vs waiting 5 minutes for it to drop. I also took pride in never making my melees have to ask for a haste.

Full health = waste, turn it into mana
Full mana = waste - translate it into something better

I honestly liked to tread water around 80% health and mana. If it climbed much above that it was generally because we had a lot of unexpected down time.

That emphasis changed obviously with torpor as playing efficiently became less important, but I digress.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Unless there’s a lot of down time, I don’t bother keeping my health fully 100% just for the sake of being 100% hp. Capitalizing on that continuous regen means I literally do not have to torpor as often or canni back the mana spent from casting said torpor.

If I’m casually soloing, why bother. Let the regen do its thing and save some torpor casts (mana cost and time spent casting). It’s mana that could be spent on buffs, debuffs, dotting, etc. It’s the same with grouping 99% of the time. I’ll canni to keep the spells rolling but unless it’s dangerous to do so, I won’t bother with torpor until I know I will get the full scope of the heal and still be under 100%.

For routine play I spend most of my time not at 100% health.

If I have nothing better to do with my time? No spells to cast or other actions to take? Well … there is value in doing nothing! Sit my fat ass down and double my regen or get some med ticks in. Shamans (like bards) can be a very busy, very high APM class to play. There is value in just giving yourself a break.

The only times I’m OCD about staying topped off fully and clicking furiously with super high APM is when I’m soloing something challenging or my group/raid’s needs demand it.

Then you are playing inefficiently. There is nothing wrong with that. This is a game, play it how you want! But playing inefficiently is not Min/Max, so it is irrelevant to the topic of Min/Maxing. Iksar/Troll Regen is not Min/Max simply because you are too lazy to Torpor/Cannibalize.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I honestly liked to tread water around 80% health and mana. If it climbed much above that it was generally because we had a lot of unexpected down time.

This is bad advice, because you die quickly at level 60 when in dangerous zones. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjZxMlJSCDc - Torporing takes 3 minutes or less to get back to full HP/Mana. Running around a zone like WW at 80% HP to justify your racial choice is just reckless, and will end up costing you more time when you need to make a corpse run.

Everybody agrees that Regen is better before Torpor. Everybody agrees you want to keep passive regeneration active before you get Torpor. That is not relevant to Min/Max discussions, where you have Torpor.

[Troxx]

Min/max for shaman is being 60 and having torpor. Once you have accomplished that you can get anything done even in scrub gear like mine. We have established that there is nothing an ogre or troll shaman can do that a barbarian can’t.

That leaves you with a choice between fashion quest (most important!) and what provided the best benefit both currently and along the way (1-59 and pre torpor).

The answer is clear: regen

The benefit is real.
Measurable.
Impactful.
At all levels and in all circumstances.
Superior before torpor and still nice after it.

[Penish]

dsm still goin full retard, cool times go 2024