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  #41  
Old 05-31-2023, 09:31 AM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
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Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
If the shaman has torpor you could probably use a lesser slow to allow more hits / ds damage vs trash? Idk that is speculation on my part.
Depends on the trash. If you are farming goblin skins in Droga, that would probably work.

For harder trash the few DPS you gain may not be worth the extra damage you take.
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  #42  
Old 05-31-2023, 10:38 AM
Toxigen Toxigen is online now
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mage mo' betta
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  #43  
Old 05-31-2023, 11:46 AM
Balimon Balimon is offline
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Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I apologize, my previous message was a bit confusing in terms of the explanation. Here is a simplified version of the maths. All of these scenarios are fighting https://wiki.project1999.com/Oosa_Shadowthumper :

Solo Mage level 56:

1x cast of Vocarate Earth (Pet) = 320 Mana (including 1x Meditation tick loss)

1x cast of Burnout Pants = 60 Mana (including 3x Meditation tick loss)

1x cast of Cadeau of Flame = 175 Mana (including 1x Meditation tick loss)

1x cast of Scars of Sigil = 175 Mana (No Meditation tick loss due to cast speed)

Pet = 31 DPS
Damage Shield = 12 DPS
Scars of Sigil = 5 DPS

Totals: 730 Mana for 48 DPS and pet takes 3000 damage.

Mage/Shaman Duo, both level 56, Pet is Tanking:

1x cast of Togor's Insects = 175 Mana (This spell allows the pet to survive 3 encounters instead of 1)

0.33x cast of Vocarate Earth (Pet) = 107 Mana

0.33x cast of Burnout Pants = 20 Mana

0.33x cast of Cadeau of Flame = 58 Mana

1x cast of Scars of Sigil = 175 Mana (No Meditation tick loss due to cast speed)

Pet = 31 DPS
Damage Shield = 4 DPS (damage is lowered due to slow)
Scars of Sigil = 5 DPS

Totals: 535 Mana for 40 DPS and pet takes 1000 damage

Mage/Shaman Duo, both level 56, Shaman is Tanking:

1x cast of Togor's Insects = 175 Mana

2x cast of Chloroblast = 350 Mana

0x cast of Vocarate Water = 0 Mana

0.2x cast of Cadeau of Flame = 35 Mana (The Shaman has the DS, so you don't need to cast it as often)

1x cast of Scars of Sigil = 175 Mana (No Meditation tick loss due to cast speed)

Pet DPS = 47 (Water pet should do at least 16 more DPS than Earth pet)
Damage Shield = 4 DPS (damage is lowered due to slow)
Scars of Sigil = 5 DPS

Totals: 735 Mana for 56 DPS and shaman takes 0 damage (the increased DPS is reducing damage taken as well as the heals)

Ratio of DPS to Mana while Shaman is tanking: 13.125

Ratio of DPS to Mana while Pet is tanking: 13.375

Conclusion: The Tanking Shaman adds 16 DPS to the duo, while maintaining the same DPS to Mana ratio.

At the end of the day, the mana to DPS ratio between a Mage chain summoning and a Shaman face tanking is basically the same, but with the Shaman tanking you are killing mobs faster.

If the Shaman has Torpor and/or Fungi Staff + Fungi Tunic, having the Shaman Tank will surpass chain summoning pets in the DPS to Mana ratio.
DSM your math is wrong on the mage/shaman duo where the pet is tanking. Why is there one cast of Scars of Sigil? There's no need at all, a competent mage would be spamming burnt wood staff for that fight instead especially if the pet is only going to take 1000 damage. Also I don't think the mage would be using vocarate earth in that situation. It isn't needed at all for the root or HP, I think a mage would use a air pet or dyzils deafening decoy instead to increase DPS. The air pet tanks better than the earth and has a damage proc with the stun and the DDD has a large DS. Personally I would use Dyzils there instead for 350 mana since it casts DS on itself.

I love how you deep dive on the math on this stuff however I think you took that solo video of the mage and used it to look at the class one dimensionally. There are more tools in the kit available than the earth and water pet. If you ever want to test it I have a 58 mage that's parked at the arena that I level there sometimes. No focus staves but she does have the burnt wood.
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  #44  
Old 05-31-2023, 04:47 PM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
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Originally Posted by Balimon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
There's no need at all, a competent mage would be spamming burnt wood staff for that fight instead especially if the pet is only going to take 1000 damage.
I apologize, I did forget to mention that my previous post is assuming both the Shaman and the Mage are spamming JBB/Burnt Wood Staff (or Boots of Bladecalling). Due to the clickie spam, that is another reason why the Shaman is tanking in this duo, because you are going to get a lot of root breaks. The clickie spam is also the reason I wasn't accounting for the mana you would be gaining back via meditate. The DPS difference is still basically the difference between the Earth Pet tanking and the Water pet backstabbing when you include the clickies.

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Originally Posted by Balimon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I love how you deep dive on the math on this stuff however I think you took that solo video of the mage and used it to look at the class one dimensionally. There are more tools in the kit available than the earth and water pet. If you ever want to test it I have a 58 mage that's parked at the arena that I level there sometimes. No focus staves but she does have the burnt wood.
Yeah that would be awesome if I could get some better Mage pet data, and ideas on how Mages try to improve their play. There is surprisingly little data on both topics. That video I showed is about the only one I could find for a 50+ Mage soloing on P99. I got some great DPS data from Allishia on the Epic Pet, but I don't have the equivalent for the non-epic pets.
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  #45  
Old 05-31-2023, 04:53 PM
Jimjam Jimjam is offline
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It would be interesting to see how mage pet dps and tanking interact with the cripple line and shaman buffs imo
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  #46  
Old 05-31-2023, 07:54 PM
Snaggles Snaggles is offline
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DDD is MUCH lower dps than the 57 earth. I think it’s a bit worse than the 49 pets and you can’t even deadwood it. Maybe pants hasted on a low mana suicidal pet approach but I don’t know.

I haven’t focused an air yet but it doesn’t seem more durable than earth in my informal testing nor is focused water.
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  #47  
Old 06-02-2023, 09:35 AM
Crede Crede is offline
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Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
DDD is MUCH lower dps than the 57 earth. I think it’s a bit worse than the 49 pets and you can’t even deadwood it. Maybe pants hasted on a low mana suicidal pet approach but I don’t know.

I haven’t focused an air yet but it doesn’t seem more durable than earth in my informal testing nor is focused water.
I would be curious to see some focused 59 air pet parses as well. Seems like a no brainer over earth if root isn’t needed
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  #48  
Old 06-02-2023, 10:19 AM
Toxigen Toxigen is online now
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Any duo without FD, lull, or mez is hurtin for a squirtin unless you're just doing trivial shit to xp on.
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  #49  
Old 06-02-2023, 01:44 PM
Ripqozko Ripqozko is offline
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Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Any duo without FD, lull, or mez is hurtin for a squirtin unless you're just doing trivial shit to xp on.
You can do some via coth if room (juggs) to split as well.
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  #50  
Old 06-02-2023, 02:38 PM
Toxigen Toxigen is online now
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Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
You can do some via coth if room (juggs) to split as well.
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