Hit point vs. Mana point gearing on a Manna Robe Magician - Page 5

YudanNashi · #41 09-10-2024, 04:00 PM

All I want to know is, do I (would you) drop phat DKP for it on mage or not? Thanks!

loramin · #42 09-10-2024, 05:04 PM

For the mana robe itself? I think it's a top tier item for Mages.

bcbrown · #43 09-10-2024, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bcbrown, your posts were ... long. Too long for me to review.

But I will point out that this whole calculus has been done already a ton in this forum (and on Reddit too I think) ... only with Shaman cannibalizing (both with and without "cann dancing", ie. trying to catch med ticks).

Obviously Mana Robe isn't exactly the same as casting Cannibalize (I through IV) ... but the all the math should be basically the same, with just a couple of the initial numbers changing.

One simple way to verify your numbers is to find one of those calculation threads, take someone else's calculations, plug the Mana Robe numbers in, and see if you get similar numbers to your's.

Yeah man, anyone would have to be a little unhinged to want to read all of my posts in this thread. To be honest, the reason I asked Balimon to take this from DMs to a public thread was because I wanted to be able to preview my writing in order to correct any mistakes and make edits.

I enjoyed getting to use my mathematical modeling skills, but I'm honestly not chomping at the bit to put a lot of more work into this topic; although I didn't expect to get much if any engagement, the complete lack of interest is a little discouraging. Your suggestion to look up shaman Canni threads is a great idea, but a brief search didn't find anything promising. If you want to find some of those calculation threads I'd take a look at them.

Now that I've done all the work to come up with an answer, I think I can rewrite it in a way that's shorter and easier to follow. If I did that, would you be interested in reading that?

Ripqozko · #44 09-10-2024, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YudanNashi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All I want to know is, do I (would you) drop phat DKP for it on mage or not? Thanks!

Nope but most mages would.

Vivitron · #45 09-10-2024, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

although I didn't expect to get much if any engagement, the complete lack of interest is a little discouraging.

I started thinking about your posts some (admittedly didn't read them all) but didn't get to the point of having a coherent reply. Given this I'll share the two thoughts I had about it:

1. I think COTH's cast per time instead of mana remaining per time is probably the more interesting way to model this.

2. We should probably graph two competing gear configurations on the same chart for easier comparison.

At the time I had an LLM cook up thought 2 based on your code as a single page of html/js, but I never got back around to swapping it to thought 1.

Code:

<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
<body>
<div>
  <label>Line 1: Starting Mana <input id="mana1" type="number" value="3500"></label>
  <label>Health to Burn <input id="health1" type="number" value="2000"></label>
</div>
<div>
  <label>Line 2: Starting Mana <input id="mana2" type="number" value="3200"></label>
  <label>Health to Burn <input id="health2" type="number" value="2300"></label>
</div>
<button onclick="drawChart()">Update Chart</button>
<svg id="chart" width="600" height="400"></svg>
<script>
function mana(t, params = {}) {
  const {
    starting_mana = 3500,
    mana_burn = 50,
    robe_mana = 20,
    health_to_burn = 2000,
    health_burn = 60,
    health_regen = 29,
    robe_health = 60
  } = params;

  const phase1_end = health_to_burn / (health_burn - health_regen);

  if (t < phase1_end) {
    return starting_mana - (mana_burn - robe_mana) * t;
  }

  const mana_spent_phase1 = (mana_burn - robe_mana) * health_to_burn / (health_burn - health_regen);
  const mana_spent_phase2 = (t - phase1_end) * (mana_burn - robe_mana * health_regen / robe_health);

  return starting_mana - mana_spent_phase1 - mana_spent_phase2;
}

function drawChart() {
  const svg = document.getElementById('chart');
  const width = svg.getAttribute('width');
  const height = svg.getAttribute('height');
  const margin = 40;
  const chartWidth = width - 2 * margin;
  const chartHeight = height - 2 * margin;

  const tMax = 110;
  const manaMax = 3500;

  const params1 = {
    starting_mana: Number(document.getElementById('mana1').value),
    health_to_burn: Number(document.getElementById('health1').value)
  };
  const params2 = {
    starting_mana: Number(document.getElementById('mana2').value),
    health_to_burn: Number(document.getElementById('health2').value)
  };

  const points1 = Array.from({length: 100}, (_, i) => {
    const t = i * tMax / 99;
    return `${margin + t/tMax*chartWidth},${height - margin - mana(t, params1)/manaMax*chartHeight}`;
  }).join(' ');

  const points2 = Array.from({length: 100}, (_, i) => {
    const t = i * tMax / 99;
    return `${margin + t/tMax*chartWidth},${height - margin - mana(t, params2)/manaMax*chartHeight}`;
  }).join(' ');

  svg.innerHTML = `
    <polyline points="${points1}" fill="none" stroke="blue" stroke-width="2" />
    <polyline points="${points2}" fill="none" stroke="red" stroke-width="2" />
    <line x1="${margin}" y1="${height-margin}" x2="${width-margin}" y2="${height-margin}" stroke="black" />
    <line x1="${margin}" y1="${margin}" x2="${margin}" y2="${height-margin}" stroke="black" />
    <text x="${width/2}" y="${height-10}" text-anchor="middle">Time</text>
    <text x="10" y="${height/2}" text-anchor="middle" transform="rotate(-90 10,${height/2})">Mana</text>
  `;
}

drawChart();
</script>
</body>
</html>

loramin · #46 09-10-2024, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

but I'm honestly not chomping at the bit to put a lot of more work into this topic; although I didn't expect to get much if any engagement, the complete lack of interest is a little discouraging.

I completely get that. I'd suggest that at least a few people here would likely be interested in some well-summarized math ... but they're also allergic to walls of text, and that is the reason for the lack of engagement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your suggestion to look up shaman Canni threads is a great idea, but a brief search didn't find anything promising. If you want to find some of those calculation threads I'd take a look at them.

Will try, but I'm in a similar place of "not exactly chomping at the bit" on this. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Now that I've done all the work to come up with an answer, I think I can rewrite it in a way that's shorter and easier to follow. If I did that, would you be interested in reading that?

I think that depends on the exactly how much shorter/easier to follow it is. I'd happily read something that laid out the basics of what's involved in like a paragraph (or two tops), then threw out some (possibly dense, but not a wall of text) algebra equations, and then ended with a paragraph or two explaining what conclusions those equations lead to.

Just to be honest, anything more and you'd probably lose me.

Balimon · #47 09-10-2024, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YudanNashi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All I want to know is, do I (would you) drop phat DKP for it on mage or not? Thanks!

At this point in the timeline? Probably not really worth it. If you enjoy the class and don't mind pure support roles on raids it's a fun laid back option. All you need are sky DA ring, earring of the frozen skull, manna robe, and z heart to be effective. Everything else is icing on the cake, the epic is nice for raiding however with the way most guilds zerg you won't use it that much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For the mana robe itself? I think it's a top tier item for Mages.

Yup, the tippy top. Nothing else gives that kind of utility, it should be the number one goal for anyone raiding on a mage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How did you reach the conclusion that 1 mp = 2 hp? That's not what I took away from my analysis.

From playing around with the graphs, it took approximately 2x hp to equal the same time in ticks for 1 mp. What did you take away?

Jimjam · #48 09-11-2024, 03:04 AM

I like your maths posts bcbrown, they are a little wordy, but I like them.

bcbrown · #49 09-11-2024, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I like your maths posts bcbrown, they are a little wordy, but I like them.

Just for you I'll rewrite my analysis in a more accessible format.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balimon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

From playing around with the graphs, it took approximately 2x hp to equal the same time in ticks for 1 mp. What did you take away?

My topline conclusion was 124 hp = 40 mana. I didn't spend much time playing around with the graphs though. I'd love to know what number inputs gave you 2hp = 1hp.

Jimjam · #50 09-11-2024, 06:14 AM

I know the thread started with 12 sec cast time but 15 sec recast time, so using a mana robe with a 3 sec cast time is a perfect spacer between COTHs. I believe on the first page it was established that the damage done by that mana robe every 15 secs can be basically ignored in a variety of conditions.

Obviously the conversation has moved on from there, where are we at now?

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