Why do people say SK's do more DPS than Paladins?

[Troxx]

Pal/SK dps is very similar. Which does more depends on gear. Geared equally and in an area where you can’t (or aren’t for whatever reason) use a pet - they’re nearly identical.

If gear is equal and pet is used, the difference is basically the pet’s dps.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pal/SK dps is very similar. Which does more depends on gear. Geared equally and in an area where you can’t (or aren’t for whatever reason) use a pet - they’re nearly identical.

If gear is equal and pet is used, the difference is basically the pet’s dps.

You can also include Banshee Aura in any situation where the SK is not grouping with a class that has a better damage shield to cast on them. Banshee Aura stacks with Ring 8-10, so you are getting an additional 6 DPS or so while tanking unslowed mobs.

Shroud of Death/Undeath is also giving you a bit of extra DPS, it procs for 50 damage each time.

SK's will have ~7.5 more DPS over a Paladin with Banshee Aura and Shroud of Death/Undeath when they are tanking unslowed mobs.

If you are a big race, you could add a bit more DPS from Slam.

As you say, when pets are added into the mix, you also get the Pet's DPS. The pet does around 12-15 DPS with self buffs. It can go higher with better buffs and pet weapons.

You are correct that SK's and Paladins will do identical damage in any situation where they are only autoattacking, have identical damage shields, are fighting a mob that is immune to lifetap, and pets are not allowed. Both classes are on the same damage tables, and have access to the same BiS weapons.

[Ennewi]

Piercing is the one exception, but then the best knight weapons are 2hs. Still worth considering if in a guild that has the ability to take out trips and ring war, but not vulak/tunare outside of draft, as the former provide very decent 2h piercing weapons. Even then though, there's a lot more time to obtain BiS than in the classic trilogy.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Piercing is the one exception, but then the best knight weapons are 2hs.

The best are better but the best 2hs aren’t much better than the best piercing.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Great_Spear_of_Dawn

That’s why my paladin alt uses. His dps (for a knight) is absolutely nuts. Bonus fries abound when hunting undead. 725 nearly unresistable dmg (20dps) and with its duration and decent dexterity - it’s got a lot of uptime. Delay is in a sweet spot for dmg bonuses and it’s slow enough to get most casts off between swings.

There are only 5 other weapons in game with as good or better ratio. The only 3 I would consider using are rocksmasher (looks cool, 41% haste, and hp), tunare sword, and vulak axe.

Also consider that the casual knight’s BotB is Narandi lance and paladins get that sweet 225 skill cap vs 210 for sk.

You can also include Banshee Aura in any situation where the SK is not grouping with a class that has a better damage shield to cast on them.

Dmg shields are always nice but this assumes nobody else has a better DS to cast on you, you don’t want to use a DS potion when another DS isn’t an option, and that the mobs are unslowed.

That’s a lot of assumptions.

Shroud of Death/Undeath is also giving you a bit of extra DPS, it procs for 50 damage each time.

A handy proc indeed but don’t conflate the dmg output it does. Buff procs fire about 2x a minute regardless of dexterity - so that’s 1.66 dps. Fairly confident level 60 Yaulp buff will net you greater returns than that on white damage alone.

So yeah - Knight dps is fairly identical. The difference is really only the pet, and only if the pet is summoned, and only to the extent to which that the pet is buffed.

How often have we SKs summon their pets? Pretty rarely.

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The best are better but the best 2hs arenÂ’t much better than the best piercing.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Great_Spear_of_Dawn

ThatÂ’s why my paladin alt uses. His dps (for a knight) is absolutely nuts.

Same. Helps that the proc also isn't situationally problematic, like the flamberge root at ring war. Spear really only lacks raw HP, otherwise it's a high value dkp bargain bin alternative.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bonus fries abound when hunting undead. 725 nearly unresistable dmg (20dps) and with its duration and decent dexterity - itÂ’s got a lot of uptime.

Yep. Occasionally it sees resists against mobs like Verix, some of the hate minis and what not, but regular undead melt pretty fast and it feels satisfying to have a DoT proc as a paladin while also being able to HoT oneself. If only those yellow text messages were still in game.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also consider that the casual knightÂ’s BotB is Narandi lance and paladins get that sweet 225 skill cap vs 210 for sk.

Aye, just what I was referring to which is still hard to make sense of in terms of overall class theme. Ignoring the fact that necromancers can wield piercing weapons and clerics cannot, SKs look to have a larger array of piercing weapons to choose from, and good ones at that—thex dagger, dark spear of venom, shard of night, ikatiar's stinger, vyemm's fang, feverblade—which paladins are excluded from wielding. And even the embalmer's skinning knife, with its proc being less useful to SKs since they apparently also have a lower bind wound skill than paladins; that difference makes some sense though.

[Troxx]

Yeah I never understood why SKs didn’t get the same piercing caps paladins did.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How often have we SKs summon their pets? Pretty rarely.

If you are soloing or grouping you have your pet out pretty often. This is where Knight DPS matters the most.

In raid situations where you are tanking (and cannot use your pet), an SK/Paladin is not being judged on their DPS output. It doesn't really matter how much DPS you are doing.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah I never understood why SKs didn’t get the same piercing caps paladins did.

Same. It's a strange decision. I guess they really wanted SK's to use 2H swords, which match their fashion better. I can see someone thinking a lance is more of a Paladin weapon.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you are soloing or grouping you have your pet out pretty often. This is where Knight DPS matters the most.

Across all the groups across all my characters 1-60, I can honestly say I’ve only only rarely seen SKs do it in groups.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Across all the groups across all my characters 1-60, I can honestly say I’ve only only rarely seen SKs do it in groups.

I use my pet often in groups, even when pulling. It isn't difficult to keep the pet in camp when you are pulling.

My guess is a lot of SK's are just lazy about bone chips. This makes people less likely to summon a pet when they only have a few chips on them.

[Pint]

Does banshee aura stack with ragefire arms? Also paladins get a self buff 65 dmg dd proc that offsets the advantage of the sk tap proc buff line id imagine