Iksar Shaman - Solo Challenges?

[Tann]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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Please keep fighting the good fight by posting the facts, you'll never get through to p99's resident flat Earther, he'll go down with that ship claiming it's not actually sinking, but at least you tried!

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

here is where DSMs shit falls apart

rdy?

2 freshly dinged 56 shaman, 1 ogre spamming jbb and 1 lizard w/ no jbb playing smart

guess who hits 57 in less time /played?

The barbarian shaman 3/4 of the way thru 55 with his mighty hammer?

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The barbarian shaman 3/4 of the way thru 55 with his mighty hammer?

And yes. The real winner is the barbarian if we acknowledge that getting to 60 and getting torpor and having all that extra time to build dkp and acquire gear is the actual definition of Min/max

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As for me? I like scratching my butt

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[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DSM, could you address Troxx's scenario on the previous page? I'd like to see that before I continue nitpicking your calculations.

Sure. Unfortunately Troxx has excluded a number of variables, which is why he thinks he is correct when he is not. The mic drop was premature sadly.

Using Troxx's example, the Mob has 4500 HP and deals 10 DPS slowed. We are a level 58 Shaman that has Regrowth on, and has hasted their pet. Mana costs for self Regrowth and Pet Haste are ignored for this test, since both Shamans will do it. This means the reduction in mana per tick is the same for both the Iksar Shaman and the Ogre Shaman.

I did make a few minor errors in my calculations in the previous post, but they end up working out better for JBB anyway. A Canni Dancing Ogre Shaman is getting 32 mana per tick. This is because you get 6 + 15 = 21 HP from sitting + Regrowth on the tick, and 21 from meditate. After cannibalizing this equates to 32 mana per tick. A Canni Dancing Iksar Shaman is getting 16 + 15 = 31 HP from sitting + Regrowth on the tick, and 21 from meditate. This equates to 37 mana per tick.

JBB (32.8 DPS) + Hasted Pet (17 DPS) + Blight, Hammer of the Scourge (2.2 DPS from half duration of procced Dot and initial DD) = 53 DPS. A JBB Shaman would kill a mob with 4500 HP in 85 seconds. You would get 14 ticks of standing HP regen + Regrowth, so you would reduce incoming damage by (15 + 3) X 14 = 252. You get 14 mana from the standing mana regen. This means the JBB Shaman spent a Total of 175 (Slow) + ((850 damage taken - 252 damage reduced) / 2) - 14 Mana = 460 mana spent. A canni dancing Ogre is getting 32 mana per tick. That means it takes 86 seconds to recover out of combat. Time per mob = 85 + 86 = 171 seconds including recovery time after the fight.

A DoT Shaman using 2x EBolts, Hasted + Regen Pet, 1x Slow and 1x Paralzying Earth would kill the mob in 115 seconds. This is because the Pet would be fighting the entire time. 2x Ebolts would do 2556 damage in 112 seconds including cast time, and it takes 115 seconds for the pet to do the remainder damage at 17 DPS. Since the pet and DoT's are going simultaneously and this includes DoT cast time, this is correct. The mana spent on this would be 320 x 2 (EBolt) + 175 (Slow) + 100 (Paralzying Earth) = 915 from spell costs. A canni dancing Shaman would not be able to canni dance during spell casting in combat. This means you are also losing 4 ticks of meditate (84 mana and 24 sitting HP), for an extra 96 mana worth of cost. This means you spend 1011 mana per fight. You are casting Regen on your pet while a JBB Shaman is not, which means you are spending 1300 mana per hour, including the meditation tick loss. This equates to -2.2 mana per tick. A canni dancing Iksar that is Regening their pet is therefore getting 34.8 mana per tick. Time per mob = 174 seconds including recovery time after the fight.

I am specifically using Paralzying Earth instead of Root on the DoTTing Shaman because Troxx cannot simply assume the pet will always have agro after a low level root, which only lasts 48 seconds and can break early. Just using these calculations alone, the JBB Shaman is 3 seconds faster per encounter. Realistically this number is higher, because the DoTTing shaman in this scenario is assumed to never get a root break, spell resist, never get hit by the mob at all, and never miss a canni dance in combat outside of casting. Obviously this is unrealistic in practice. This is why JBB is better all the way until level 60. You do less work and cast less spells for the same base kill speed. This simplified playstyle reduces the RnG chances that your XP session will be interrupted by bad luck.

[Troxx]

The pain of loss stings doesn’t it?

Don’t worry. It will pass with time.

Chin up buddy! JBB is still a viable strategy. It works just fine! Much like FSI also works but is less powerful than racial regen, JBB spamming is simply not the best choice after the early powering levels have passed. Thankfully the shaman class is so ridiculously overpowered that you can make a ton of boneheaded mistakes and still defeat any encounter out there you want!

Hope that helps.

Lovingly yours,

Troxx

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The pain of loss stings doesn’t it?

Don’t worry. It will pass with time.

Chin up buddy! JBB is still a viable strategy. It works just fine! Much like FSI also works but is less powerful than racial regen, JBB spamming is simply not the best choice after the early powering levels have passed. Thankfully the shaman class is so ridiculously overpowered that you can make a ton of boneheaded mistakes and still defeat any encounter out there you want!

Hope that helps.

Lovingly yours,

Troxx

You should know the pain of loss, because you lost. You can double check my calculations https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=434 if you don't believe me. Sorry you got your hopes up! You simply didn't take into account a number of variables. It happens.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am specifically using Paralzying Earth instead of Root on the DoTTing Shaman because Troxx cannot simply assume the pet will always have agro after a low level root, which only lasts 48 seconds and can break early.

This is a bad faith adjustment - you of all people should be able to appreciate the value of the pet spamming taunt.

If Troxx reports that he has found the low level taunt to be enough time for the pet to build aggro, I take him at his word, just as I take you at your word when you report your experiences.

If you truly are open to learning new strategies and changing your mind, isn't this worth exploring and attempting?

Your weapon proc calculations aren't correct yet, but I'm not sure I'm willing to calculate the correct value if you're not going to approach this in good faith.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a bad faith adjustment - you of all people should be able to appreciate the value of the pet spamming taunt.

If Troxx reports that he has found the low level taunt to be enough time for the pet to build aggro, I take him at his word, just as I take you at your word when you report your experiences.

If you truly are open to learning new strategies and changing your mind, isn't this worth exploring and attempting?

Your weapon proc calculations aren't correct yet, but I'm not sure I'm willing to calculate the correct value if you're not going to approach this in good faith.

I have done plenty of rooting and pet tanking before. Spells like Slow generate a lot of hate in the early stages of the fight. Your DoTs and Root are generating hate too. Assuming a 48 second root is always going to be enough when you have RNG on taunt and root breaks is obviously silly. You are going to encur HP or mana costs from root due to it being resisted or broken early in some fights. You can't just ignore that. Either you use a higher mana slow to cover those cases in the example, or you assume that you are casting at least 2x 30 mana roots per fight. Just remember that casting another spell in combat incurs another meditation tick penalty, which is 26 mana on an Iksar. That is 30 + 30 + 26 = 86 mana. A root break also come with potential damage. If you took even 1 hit, you've basically spent the same mana as Paralyzing Earth.

The fight lasts 85 seconds. A Shaman can easily get some DEX gear and buff themselves. At 170 Dex you get 1.5 PPM. An 85 second fight would have have 2 procs on average, which gets halved by JBB. So yes, you would get 1 proc per fight on average.

Finally, Troxx always approaches discussions like this in bad faith, and that is clear from his trolling. You have trolled this thread too. You are not in a position to be judging others.

[Duik]

Based on this I'd do slow, 1 dot use pet hasted AND use JBB. So this is for a troll/barb/ogre
Dots are more efficient mana wise. While dots ticking id canni dance.
Pet gets enough agro in this time. Malo in this time as well to (help) mitigate resists.
JBB while not huge damage will take up the slack while saving the dot mana.

A troll with snare neck could easily ping pong (even tick mana sitting to get sit agro) a mob with JBB while letting pet rear attacks while taunt may re attract its attention. Also saving mana on re rooting when mob is in flee mode. Either scenario works here.
As usual the answer is somewhere in the middle.

OT i know but Thoughts?
No napkin math but based on you all's posted numbers this seems like a great niche strat.
-- Just realised this is iksar specific thread. So no JBB. Ha. Topics get messed up so often its hard to follow sometimes.

[Troxx]

On standard xp mobs malo doesn’t provide value. Resist rate is already low so that’s just wasted mana [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes pet hasted + dot + jbb is gonna get it dead the fastest but you’ll end up killing fewer mobs per unit time due to recovery and down time. Remember… we’re talking about leveling with or without JBB here - no 60 and no torpor.

You know … those earlier levels where shamans either fly high or are mediocre depending entirely on how efficiently they manage their time and resources.


Shaman would have been a more interesting class without torpor. Druids should have gotten torpor. It was a mistake to give that kind of heal on a class that can slow, convert their hp to mana, CC, have a pocket pet, some of the best buffs, AND some pretty heavy hitting and mana efficient dots.