I know it's not classic, but...

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the warrior doesn't have to match a charm pet anyway

I will 100% agree with this point. You do not have to do charm level DPS to be useful and any twinked melee is going to do enough sustained DPS to be worthwhile for the most part.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have leveled every EQ class to 50+ for the record. Some many times over. Lots of them twinked fairly heavily. I've done enchanter EASILY 5+ times 50+ across multiple servers including original classic back in the day, p99, multiple TLP's. I feel like I have a pretty good understanding of this game as a whole and the power levels of various classes. Enchanter especially. No random one off parse is going to change my mind.

The only thing that matters for this thread is what the P99 data shows today. It could very well have felt different during live, for example, because most people had crap gear. You didn't have a lot of Warriors with a weapon like Wurmslayer, or a good haste item.

It could have even been a bit different when you leveled your Enchanter on P99 if it was years ago.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only thing that matters for this thread is what the P99 data shows today. It could very well have felt different during live, for example, because most people had crap gear. You didn't have a lot of Warriors with a weapon like Wurmslayer, or a good haste item.

It could have even been a bit different when you leveled your Enchanter on P99 if it was years ago.

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[cd288]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Experience has demonstrated lack of solo melees is mostly due to their terrible health recovery. Solo melees, even without fungus tunics, were turning into a commonplace sight once combat bind wound got popularized, until its well-deserved nerf.

Warrior with a good weapon will do fair damage at a level range where the warrior might be hitting for 50's or 60's, not even counting crits or berserking, while similar mobs might be hitting for 40's. Monster damage scales pretty quickly and outpaces the player melee soon enough, but at low levels players can keep up if they're using over-leveled weapons. That same level ~20 warrior with a level-appropriate 6/26 axe isn't impressing anyone.

For the sake of my earlier post, the warrior doesn't have to match a charm pet anyway--few people do--but merely do enough damage to be a useful contribution in that regard. The class definitely has the tools to do that and its offense is probably somewhat under-rated by the community at large.

Danth

So a lot of writing to say exactly what I said, which is that twinkled warriors might be somewhat viable. Like you said overleveled weapons that aren’t realistic that someone of that level should actually have (oh and as DSM says, a haste item too lololol)

[unsunghero]

I have seen so many twinked monks (I assume twinked) as I was leveling, that it made the monk class seem like the most broken in the game

I’d be thinking I was OP soloing stuff in Sol B on enc, then some monk would come in who was 5 levels lower than me and be wrecking stuff doing fast hits of like 120 damage, killing much faster than me since I was relying on a charmed mob that’s whiffing like crazy miss miss miss miss miss “wow this shit is boring why can’t they hit each other”, meanwhile the monk has killed like 3 mobs at 5 levels lower than me

Only now in around the mid-50’s have charmed mobs been able to match the twinked monk’s damage, but I bet they still aren’t swinging as fast or hitting as often without buffs

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have seen so many twinked monks (I assume twinked) as I was leveling, that it made the monk class seem like the most broken in the game

I’d be thinking I was OP soloing stuff in Sol B on enc, then some monk would come in who was 5 levels lower than me and be wrecking stuff doing fast hits of like 120 damage, killing much faster than me since I was relying on a charmed mob that’s whiffing like crazy miss miss miss miss miss “wow this shit is boring why can’t they hit each other”, meanwhile the monk has killed like 3 mobs at 5 levels lower than me

Only now in around the mid-50’s have charmed mobs been able to match the twinked monk’s damage, but I bet they still aren’t swinging as fast or hitting as often without buffs

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No mention whether your charms are hasted/weaponized or if they have any pet toys. I can probably see a heavily twinked monk outdamaging a charm if it's not hasted and doesn't have weapons. Those monks could have CoF and be fully buffed with fungi tunics for all we know. Not really a fair comparison and lots of unknown variables. Also this just in: Monks do more damage than warriors

[cd288]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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Lmao

[unsunghero]

It’s those crazy staves man. What is that, the Tstaff? They’re always clobbering stuff with a 2h staff

I’m one of the least experienced enchanters on this forum, but I think some people who haven’t played one might underestimate just how often charmed mobs miss each other. They really don’t swing all that fast and they miss all the damn time. I’ve had fights that have gone what feels like 4+ minutes of miss miss miss miss miss. It’s easy yes, but I wouldn’t call it necessarily fast

Of course it’s faster to get one and crash it into 2-3 others but that’s not always possible to set up and harder to safely charm break without ggr without risking your little friend dying

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It’s those crazy staves man. What is that, the Tstaff? They’re always clobbering stuff with a 2h staff

I’m one of the least experienced enchanters on this forum, but I think some people who haven’t played one might underestimate just how often charmed mobs miss each other. They really don’t swing all that fast and they miss all the damn time. I’ve had fights that have gone what feels like 4+ minutes of miss miss miss miss miss. It’s easy yes, but I wouldn’t call it necessarily fast

Of course it’s faster to get one and crash it into 2-3 others but that’s not always possible to set up and harder to safely charm break without ggr without risking your little friend dying

Yeah it's tough to compare a fungi + tstaff + CoF fully buffed monk to essentially a naked enchanter. That level of twinking sub-50 is just going to destroy everything. I'm honestly not sure DPS wise how it would compare. I'm fairly confident that a fully kitted/buffed rogue charm pet is still going to clown even a twinked monk. Regular warrior mob charm? Maybe not? Not really sure. Charm DPS overtakes even the most twinked melees at a certain point but it's debatable exactly where that point is. It also sounds like you aren't hasting or giving your pets weapons. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing when soloing if your goal is to get both mobs low and break charm/nuke method. But it certainly isn't the most optimal way to do the most DPS with charms. In a group setting with weapons and haste the damage will be considerably different.

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah it's tough to compare a fungi + tstaff + CoF fully buffed monk to essentially a naked enchanter. That level of twinking sub-50 is just going to destroy everything. I'm honestly not sure DPS wise how it would compare. I'm fairly confident that a fully kitted/buffed rogue charm pet is still going to clown even a twinked monk. Regular warrior mob charm? Maybe not? Not really sure. Charm DPS overtakes even the most twinked melees at a certain point but it's debatable exactly where that point is. It also sounds like you aren't hasting or giving your pets weapons. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing when soloing if your goal is to get both mobs low and break charm/nuke method. But it certainly isn't the most optimal way to do the most DPS with charms. In a group setting with weapons and haste the damage will be considerably different.

I mean ok, I know you can give the charmed pet a torch or w/e and haste it, but honestly that never really appealed to me for leveling for a couple reasons:

1. I don’t like dying
2. You have to give up 50% exp every kill. I’d rather break it and kill both, or if the target came out way ahead than that’s the new pet
3. Even all tricked out and a higher level, these guys seem to be only able to kill 3ish mobs before they are too low health, unless you want to be berzerking buffing them over and over which gets mana intensive. You can break charm and mez/blur them but that feels kinda awkward, kinda slow (waiting for their health to chunk back up)

I’m sure at near max level there’s some really underconned monster pets you can set up though, but that’s probably more for a fun factor or farming goal than exp