Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If only it were just a "silly statement". DSM is always saying fallacies like this.

A Shaman especially isn't going to be root rotting like that vs summoning MOBs. It's such a dumb thing to say.

Its not a fallacy lol. Its factual math. Again, this strategy would work perfectly fine and have the same DPS as a Mage. Sorry Mage DPS isn't that good.

We were talking about Sebilis silly, where most mobs dont summon. Either you didn't read or you are pivoting to avoid the point.

[PlsNoBan]

This dudes boner for the shaman class has completely drained his brain of blood and is no longer capable of rational thought

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This dudes boner for the shaman class has completely drained his brain of blood and is no longer capable of rational thought

Yup, all of these level 60 mages have NO bias whatsoever[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. Math isn't biased[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yet again you can't counter my points with logic and evidence, so name calling is all you have. Its sad.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We were talking about Sebilis silly, where most mobs dont summon.

Keeping to Sebilis: Most don't summon but that's kind of moot because this group of 60's isn't hanging out at disco or chef unless they're goofing off anyway. I've never seen anyone try to play that way at myconids or juggernauts, resist rates are a hassle, lot of it summons, and the mushroom men have too many healers and gaters. In crypt if you're taking some of the non-valuable crap out of the picture because those are your charm pets you're still going to be left with mainly singles, especially after the initial break. You could turn emperor's room into a battle royale but that's make-work for the shaman because usually they're going to lull it out solo. Really in crypt, odds are the 4th player's logging on a rogue alt to make the doors less of a hassle. So you're left with goofing off at disco or NG on easy nights when folks don't feel like using their brains...valid enough but probably outside the main scope here.

Maybe someplace like Charasis would've been a better location for that sort of thing?

Danth

[PlsNoBan]

Raise your hand if you want to be in a group with some idiot shaman root rotting 4 mobs at a time to make his epic click do respectable damage?

Or you could just group with a mage that does as much/more without all the bullshit. Or better yet just get another enchanter that does like 3x as much dmg with another charm pet. It's fucking insane how far you're reaching to try to shoehorn your dumb class into this hypothetical "whos the best 4 caster group" question. Literally everyone knows you're wrong and you've made like 150 posts saying pure nonsense trying to argue otherwise.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yup, all of these level 60 mages have NO bias whatsoever[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. Math isn't biased[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yet again you can't counter my points with logic and evidence, so name calling is all you have. Its sad.

I don't have bias. I have every class, and I can guarantee I've done more builds than you. I've learned to appreciate them all in their own way. I know reality whereas you seem to have a distorted view of it to support your favorite class claims.

You've shown how much dps a shaman can do when there are 4-5 mobs in camp and they are allowed to just sit there and hit full epic duration time after time. This is an effective way for a shaman to solo, but you don't even see this happening when shaman's duo. You're usually just focusing down 1 mob at a time and being careful more times than not at what you bring in, especially with super high level content. The hole for instance could easily be a wipe if you get 2-3 nasty golems.

The same goes for this group of 4 situation. There's no point to attempt to bring that many mobs in at once, and let them sit there over and over again so the shaman can do more dps, hehe. It's an unnecessary risk especially when fighting mobs that lvl 60s actually care about, lol. Even seb mobs can get nasty once you get past 3 of them. As myself & Danth already pointed out, most situations you will just eventually run out of mobs too.

Shaman's are a more superior overall class than a mage, but what mages do well, they do really well. This particular scenario is one that they are built for when you have an enchanter/cleric that can cover what a shaman brings to the table.

So sorry, everyone will be enjoying the superior mage dps while your shaman will be sitting there on the baseball field not getting picked for either team of pure casters.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't have bias. I have every class, and I can guarantee I've done more builds than you. I've learned to appreciate them all in their own way. I know reality whereas you seem to have a distorted view of it to support your favorite class claims.

You've shown how much dps a shaman can do when there are 4-5 mobs in camp and they are allowed to just sit there and hit full epic duration time after time. This is an effective way for a shaman to solo, but you don't even see this happening when shaman's duo. You're usually just focusing down 1 mob at a time and being careful more times than not at what you bring in, especially with super high level content. The hole for instance could easily be a wipe if you get 2-3 nasty golems.

The same goes for this group of 4 situation. There's no point to attempt to bring that many mobs in at once, and let them sit there over and over again so the shaman can do more dps, hehe. It's an unnecessary risk especially when fighting mobs that lvl 60s actually care about, lol. Even seb mobs can get nasty once you get past 3 of them. As myself & Danth already pointed out, most situations you will just eventually run out of mobs too.

Shaman's are a more superior overall class than a mage, but what mages do well, they do really well. This particular scenario is one that they are built for when you have an enchanter/cleric that can cover what a shaman brings to the table.

So sorry, everyone will be enjoying the superior mage dps while your shaman will be sitting there on the baseball field not getting picked for either team of pure casters.

You claim you don't have a bias. I claim I don't have a bias. No way to prove it either way, so we are at an impasse[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] You have no monopoly on anti-bias, or proof you have less bias than I do.

You don't need to have every class to know how the math of the game works, or how classes interact in groups.

We were talking about Sebilis, because that is where Troxx got his DPS logs from. As a Shaman I am often times fighting 3-4 mobs down there at a time, because that's how the agro works. I can do this consistently, which means you can do it in a group too. I am sorry that people don't want to play this way, but that doesn't mean you would exclude a Shaman due to lack of DPS in Sebilis. They could match a Mage's DPS if the group wanted it, plus all the additional utility that they have and a Mage does not.

You need to show situations where a Mage is superior over a Shaman. So far the Sebilis example doesn't work, as my Shaman could match the high end DPS of a Mage down there. The math will remain the same, regardless of how you feel.

Also, it is silly to say "you could run out of mobs". That would also be the case if you DPS too fast with the Enchanter/Mage Pets lol. The killspeed is the same if I am matching DPS. This should be a no brainer.

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Raise your hand if you want to be in a group with some idiot shaman root rotting 4 mobs at a time to make his epic click do respectable damage?

Or you could just group with a mage that does as much/more without all the bullshit. Or better yet just get another enchanter that does like 3x as much dmg with another charm pet. It's fucking insane how far you're reaching to try to shoehorn your dumb class into this hypothetical "whos the best 4 caster group" question. Literally everyone knows you're wrong and you've made like 150 posts saying pure nonsense trying to argue otherwise.

Preference is irrelevant to math. You cannot say the Mage is objectively better here. The math disproves the claim. You just prefer it for your play style. That is fine, but it is not an objective fact. You call a Shaman "dumb", but you have no bias. Got it[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Preference is irrelevant to math. You cannot say the Mage is objectively better here. The math disproves the claim. You just prefer it for your play style. That is fine, but it is not an objective fact. You call a Shaman "dumb", but you have no bias. Got it[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The math says an additional enchanter does MUCH more sustained damage regardless of number of targets than you could ever hope to. The math also says mages will do much more than you consistently on a single target which is the vast majority of the time in most situations. I've played this game since beta from live to early p99 through like 6+ TLP servers and back to P99 multiple times in between. Not once have I ever been in a group where anyone said "Hey I got a good idea lets root 4 mobs off to the side so a shaman can epic click them and do almost as much damage as a mage"

I honestly can't believe you're actually trying to make this dipshit argument.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The math says an additional enchanter does MUCH more sustained damage regardless of number of targets than you could ever hope to. The math also says mages will do much more than you consistently on a single target which is the vast majority of the time in most situations. I've played this game since beta from live to early p99 through like 6+ TLP servers and back to P99 multiple times in between. Not once have I ever been in a group where anyone said "Hey I got a good idea lets root 4 mobs off to the side so a shaman can epic click them and do almost as much damage as a mage"

I honestly can't believe you're actually trying to make this dipshit argument.

We aren't talking about Enchanters. We already agree we are bringing at least 2 lol.

The math doesn't say this, you need to show logs where a Mage could out DPS a Shaman. So far the Sebilis example doesn't work.

Your play experience is irrelevant if you are wrong. Just because people prefer to play one way, doesn't mean other ways aren't as efficient lol. Math-wise the efficiency is the same. You are also assuming Troxx was doing 157 DPS most of the time. He said before his high-end is with nuking, which isn't sustainable. We still need the logs to know what his real average is. My guess is it's decently lower.

[PlsNoBan]

Can we get an epic mage with pet focus to post some parses and shut this moron up please?