there is a private list system going on at AC in OOT?

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Coridan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just disable the ability to MQ. It's stupid anyway.

I don’t think the 120 people on the list at the moment are there to MQ lol

[damus1]

the vast majority are, if not in the open market at least for their alts or their friends

[Malikail]

Originally Posted by Coridan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just disable the ability to MQ. It's stupid anyway.

Yes lets all make way for people too selfish and too lazy to go through the system, one that works by the way. Completed it myself about 2 weeks ago, shorter list then, got on at 54, took 4 days. Then i decided I wanted to get one to MQ to my hunting partner, so when i got back on the list i was 125. Haven't worked all the way through it yet but I'm sure I'll get a shot. If I miss it cause i'm asleep guess what i'll do? Get back on the list, last thing I would do is whine on the forums for the dynamics of the game to be changed to favor me. That's hard to empathize with or respect imo.

[damus1]

I wouldn't call a bloated easy-to-exploit mega list to be a 'game dynamic' its a player made solution and one that is far from perfect, in many ways worse than /list ever was, and should be open for discussion and/or well deserved criticism.

it rewards lazy and selfish people far more than /list ever did, and allows the same person to stack all 10 of their alts.

it was a good idea at first, that spiraled out of control, wonder how long til we can break 200

[Malikail]

Originally Posted by damus1 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wouldn't call a bloated easy-to-exploit mega list to be a 'game dynamic' its a player made solution and one that is far from perfect, in many ways worse than /list ever was, and should be open for discussion and/or well deserved criticism.

it rewards lazy and selfish people far more than /list ever did, and allows the same person to stack all 10 of their alts.

it was a good idea at first, that spiraled out of control, wonder how long til we can break 200

The game dynamic was his suggestion to disable MQ, never played under those conditions on any server, have no idea what that would be like.

The rest of what you said i can agree with, it's far from perfect but it works. If were changed to a /list system that would be ok with me, but made so it can't be MQ'd? Nah that's not a good idea at all.

[Coridan]

I'm not saying change the game to benefit me. I got my boots from Najena after an 18 hour camp. I'd bet half the people on thst list or more are for the MQ.

I won't say MQing wasn't around in classic, it may have been, but I don't remember anyone doing it or it ever being advertised, it certainly wasn't as common as it is now. I find it kind of against the spirit of the game and the point of no drop and lore mechanics, especially with people corpsing rings. I feel certain if it had been like it is now, Verant would have put in a patch to block it. Most likely making NPCs only accept full turn ons.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by damus1 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the vast majority are, if not in the open market at least for their alts or their friends

I think you have this backwards. If they wanted to MQ to get JBoots they wouldn’t wait on the AC list. They’d farm the plat and go buy the MQ from someone.

And if you were, on the other hand, trying to camp the AC to SELL an MQ to someone, a 120 person long list would absolutely be a deterrent because you could farm just as much plat (if not more) in the time it would take you to go from number 120 to 1 on the list as you would receive from selling the MQ lol.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you have this backwards. If they wanted to MQ to get JBoots they wouldn’t wait on the AC list. They’d farm the plat and go buy the MQ from someone.

And if you were, on the other hand, trying to camp the AC to SELL an MQ to someone, a 120 person long list would absolutely be a deterrent because you could farm just as much plat (if not more) in the time it would take you to go from number 120 to 1 on the list as you would receive from selling the MQ lol.

I mostly agree with your posts, but I have to nitpick at this one. List size doesn't directly connect to whether it's worth "farming" a JBoots, because of economics. On the one hand, whether there are 500 people who want one or 50, the supply remains fixed: one ring enters the server per AC spawn.

Now, there is some elasticity in demand (ie. there are people who will buy a JBoots MQ at X price but won't at X + 1), but that elasticity only goes so far: some people will pay almost any price as long as they don't have to sit in line. So when list size goes up, yes it takes more time to "farm" a JBoots ... but you can also charge more for a JBoots MQ, because people will be willing to pay even more not to sit in that extra long line.

Ultimately the market will account for this, and this is one of the great things about letting market forces "stabilize" the ability for people to acquire popular items. I don't think we can say people farming JBoots MQs are inherently a bad thing!

But ... if we're comparing two systems for solving the "X * Y problem" side by side (ie. X people want an item that takes Y time to enter the server, and X * Y is really big), I think that is when the "endless list and allow MQs" system shows it's weakness. By reducing the "cost" to win something cool in EQ from the normal "price" (you have to be patient and lucky), that price instead becomes "you have to be really, really, really patient" ... and that change makes a huge difference in how many people farm JBoots.

Now, what if we had a very similar system, but without the endless list? We still have the same X * Y problem, and it's still somewhat mitigated by "market stabilization" effects. Now though, you wouldn't pay people to sit in line for a guaranteed reward for days at a time ... SOMETHING NO ONE REMEMBERS ANYONE EVER DOING IN 1999 (your Internet connection probably couldn't even keep going for 48 hours back then, even IF you were super lucky and didn't have to worry about your Mom picking up the phone in that time [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]). Instead, you'd pay them for their patience and luck.

That one key change would instantly eliminate a huge swath of OOT's population! No longer could you turn your AFK computer into a plat farming machine: instead you have to sit and actively play the game to earn a reward. Far fewer people will want to sit and roll for chances to kill the AC (vs. sitting endlessly in line), and with less "people waiting in line time" to pay for, the overall price should go down (although of course not too much, because the fundamental supply and demand won't radically change).

But forget about price reductions, what I really want everyone to imagine is this: a system where you play EQ (or at least make periodic random rolls to try and play EQ) to get your loot, instead of sitting AFK for a guarantee of loot being handed to you!

[Sabin76]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And if you were, on the other hand, trying to camp the AC to SELL an MQ to someone, a 120 person long list would absolutely be a deterrent because you could farm just as much plat (if not more) in the time it would take you to go from number 120 to 1 on the list as you would receive from selling the MQ lol.

But this isn't /list, right? As in, you are allowed to put yourself on the list, THEN go farm plat for however long it takes, THEN head to OOT when it's almost your turn and kill the AC for even more plat. Or even put yourself on the list, the log off and do something productive with your life, before logging back on and finding your place in line dramatically improved for no effort on your part.

[damus1]

the thing with the mega list is, its not a time sink at all, you're allowed to be offline / out of zone and stay on it. you only have to be online when your turn is up. thats what allows it to have become so bloated and out of control. Over half the people that get their ring immediately re-enter the list at the bottom.

I stand by my statement, the VAST majority of these are getting MQ'd