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  #1  
Old 02-02-2025, 05:46 AM
sogundordor sogundordor is offline
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Default Ranger ac parsing (I'm serious)

Hello hello~ i'm a Lv60 ranger in blue
for the past few weeks, my ranger has some nice ac item upgrade, finally over 1400 display ac with self buff, so i decided to do some ac parsing again~

why again? because i keep check my log to see am i doing better dps/tanking when soloing, although it "feels" getting better everytime when i get some small upgrade, but the "numbers" in log tells me thats not quite true, sometimes better sometimes worse, maybe its because i keep killing geonids, they have different level spawn
then i try to kill some steady level spawn according to wiki, when reading logs they have different hps, which means maybe they still have some difference between spawns

So today, i'm not killling them, just taking hit and heal until i'm oom then camp and relog, keeping the same mob to parse

the following damage taken by the "same" storm giant escort, form 1123-1396 display ac (244-412 worn ac), taking from 494 to 636hits and record the average damage

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conclusion:
1. When a lv60 ranger killing a lv45 storm giant escort, ac has no meaning (from 1123-1396 display ac)
2. also no worn ac soft cap can find from the result (between 244-412 worn ac)

I've heard ranger ac is broken before many times, until i have this data
there must something i don't understand, the level difference? is it the same for other class? its really broken? i don't know but i'll continue stack ac when i have dkp[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
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  #2  
Old 02-02-2025, 09:06 AM
Duik Duik is offline
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At least he brings numbers.
Sorry this (appears to be/is) true.

Rangers do jot need to be screwed more.

Maybe the tailored Tiger Raptor armour with great stats and low armor class is actually great (for twinking...).
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  #3  
Old 02-02-2025, 09:36 AM
sogundordor sogundordor is offline
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Hello Solist~ i need to say sorry to you~ at the first time i read about you said ranger ac broken i don't believe you, i was thinking thats not make sense, how can it be stacking ac has no affect damage taken~

When i was upgrading ac item and keep killing geonids, i can see there some new best record, which means i can kill a geonid just taking 5% hp, so i think stacking ac can do something~
on the other hand i also found there are some worst record too, like use over 75% hp to kill one, seems worse than ever...i can't explain this at that time...

i keep studying the data and make this graph:
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When you have lower ac, you always close to 60, highest/lowest and calculate average
When you have higher and higher ac, you can have a lowest record under 60, which is nice
but you also have a chance to get hit more, but the calculate average is nearly the same
that my understanding of how ac works at this situation~

i don't think its developer intended to be, so i agree its some kind of broken~
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  #4  
Old 02-02-2025, 12:55 PM
Ripqozko Ripqozko is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sogundordor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Hello hello~ i'm a Lv60 ranger in blue
for the past few weeks, my ranger has some nice ac item upgrade, finally over 1400 display ac with self buff, so i decided to do some ac parsing again~

why again? because i keep check my log to see am i doing better dps/tanking when soloing, although it "feels" getting better everytime when i get some small upgrade, but the "numbers" in log tells me thats not quite true, sometimes better sometimes worse, maybe its because i keep killing geonids, they have different level spawn
then i try to kill some steady level spawn according to wiki, when reading logs they have different hps, which means maybe they still have some difference between spawns

So today, i'm not killling them, just taking hit and heal until i'm oom then camp and relog, keeping the same mob to parse

the following damage taken by the "same" storm giant escort, form 1123-1396 display ac (244-412 worn ac), taking from 494 to 636hits and record the average damage

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

conclusion:
1. When a lv60 ranger killing a lv45 storm giant escort, ac has no meaning (from 1123-1396 display ac)
2. also no worn ac soft cap can find from the result (between 244-412 worn ac)

I've heard ranger ac is broken before many times, until i have this data
there must something i don't understand, the level difference? is it the same for other class? its really broken? i don't know but i'll continue stack ac when i have dkp[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
This has been parsed ad naseum but people refused to believe solist and few others like me that said ac on ranger is broke and pointless, gear for hp and resists if you are gonna aim for stats. People still dont think cek sword is bis too.
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  #5  
Old 02-02-2025, 01:25 PM
Jimjam Jimjam is offline
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It is a level 45 mob. At level 45 it wouldn't be unrealistic to expetc a ranger to be in banded or maybe Ivy Etched in era - maybe 100 worn AC. You are a level 60 with 250+ worn AC.

To be critical, a potential flaw in the methodology could be your level/ac/defence are so high compared to the mob's attack that the attack is completely squelched, so adding more AC doesn't really do anything.

I suggest keep stripping off AC until you find the point where mitigation starts to noticably worsen.

Once you've found this point, you could retry the methodology with a mob of a presumably different attack rating. By doing this you could compare whether the observed cut off in mitigation/ac returns is due to excess worn AC squelching the mobs attack (which should be at a different point for each mob depending on it's attack), or there is a universal hardcap with 0% softcap return for rangers (there should be a similar mitigation for all mobs over a certain attack value at the same worn AC value).

Alternatively you could use other classes to demonstrate mitigation improvements with more worn AC against the Storm Giant Escort (is she expensive?), if you could do that it would be good evidence for the ranger being broken.

Moving past criticality, I do think you have demonstrated that ranger AC does need to be investigated. I have recently posted a bug thread raising concerns, linking to previous threads. It may be worth going to that thread and linking to this discussion to provide your futher (excellent) evidence.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=435250
Last edited by Jimjam; 02-02-2025 at 01:28 PM..
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  #6  
Old 02-02-2025, 01:53 PM
Goregasmic Goregasmic is offline
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I supose this has been submitted as a bug before? Did devs say anything about it? Just a "this is/isn't a bug" would be nice.

Edit: jimjam posted while I was writing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Maybe the tailored Tiger Raptor armour with great stats and low armor class is actually great (for twinking...).
Yeah I had the same thought. It is disregarded because of the low AC but is has pretty much enough AC to bring you close to the cap while being a decent stat salad. Makes me wonder if verant was aware of the low AC cap for rangers back then. Gear like the hammered golden hoops could make a lot of sense too.

But then again in the grand scheme of things they do decent group tanks. They were never meant to be on par with knights either so if they weren't made to soak up damage and definitely not on par on damage with rogues/monks, I guess they thought the added utility made up for it?

Or maybe they were botched and that's why they got a boost during luclin.

P.S. Kinda funny the "build your ranger like a tank" crowd apparently never parsed shit unless they went full HP.
Last edited by Goregasmic; 02-02-2025 at 02:11 PM..
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  #7  
Old 02-02-2025, 02:07 PM
sogundordor sogundordor is offline
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Hello JimJam~
I choose storm giant escort because the camp is 99% open~noone will come to kill my target hehe, and Lv45 mob is a blue /con for Lv60 player, reasonable target for solo.

i don't understand " level/ac/defence are so high compared to the mob's attack that the attack is completely squelched" i always think more ac is better, is that mean there is some kind of hard cap? or "higher" ac need higher atk mob to show mitigation effect? in my data showing worn ac has nearly no return is the point i don't understand~

I'll try your plan later (next long holiday hehe)
Plan A: stripping off AC is good but today my bags are full of trash, no room for remove item
Plan B: I have a lv60 SK can do this, but shes under 1300ac, no matter she reach soft cap or not, its doable~
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  #8  
Old 02-02-2025, 03:27 PM
Jimjam Jimjam is offline
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by "ac squelching a mob's attack" I mean you already have so much AC, the mob is already bottomed out on it's ability to damage you, so adding more AC would do nothing.

Does that make more sense?


I think that is one viable explaination for the lack of impact of AC, BUT, there seems to be other data which suggest the hypothesis that rangers just don't benefit from AC >100 is a more likely explaination.
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  #9  
Old 02-02-2025, 06:00 PM
Salaryman Salaryman is offline
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do shields and weapons with ac count towards the cap beacuse I have:

Shield of the Water Dragon
SHield of the Red Dragon
SHield of the Green Dargon

on RED99
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  #10  
Old 02-02-2025, 09:37 PM
Snaggles Snaggles is offline
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Thanks for the tests. My 60 ranger has sub 1k AC. It’s never been an issue but outside bumping I do very little with a mob swinging at me and am quick to swap to another class if that’s the need. I think first floor of hate and some Fear is all I’ve raid tanked since we needed a quick MA. Random blue cons like Seb are no big deal because of slow. The Vyemm whip made a pretty noticeable impact to blue cons durability.

I tend to give up all my AC, and a lot of hps for SV’s, MR in particular. No math behind that but it’s tastier placebo.
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