Updated weapon aggro chart?

[|tda| fatal]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was pretty sure that aggro procs whether or not they had multiple sub-components were flat capped at 400 threat + however much damage the proc did.

Ie WESS went from mega aggro to a flat 400. I don’t think you get separate checks from the blind and debuff. You used to for sure - but no longer.

Dec 23rd 2022
[1]

Rogean: Adjusted aggro formula calculations for spell SPAs: AC/Atk Debuff, Snare, Slow, Blind, Stun, Fear, Spinstun, Charm, Mez.

Rogean: The SPA above are capped at 1200 aggro, or 400 if the player is not high enough level to use the spell (Ex: Procs).

Rogean: Removed an overall spell cap of 400 aggro if player was not high enough level for the spell. This is instead capped per SPA Above.

Rogean: Bards are now capped at 140 aggro per song/spell/proc in all circumstances.

Rogean: Various spells in our database had erroneous bonus hate values that should not exist in any of our eras. The code handling that is now removed. This affected various spells in the Tashan line and Ykesha proc.

[long.liam]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was pretty sure that aggro procs whether or not they had multiple sub-components were flat capped at 400 threat + however much damage the proc did.

Ie WESS went from mega aggro to a flat 400. I don’t think you get separate checks from the blind and debuff. You used to for sure - but no longer.

That's incorrect, I have tested it myself and the dev's even confirmed it in the patch notes. The cap is per SPA (Spell Affect). Each SPA (Spell Affect) gives up to a cap of 400 hate each, depending the HP of the NPC casted on.

[greatdane]

There's one thing I've always wondered about, and could never find an answer to:

It's said that your off-hand weapon has half the proc rate of your main hand. That has been cited as fact for 20+ years.

But you also have a <100% chance to even swing with your OH. Depending on class, it's typically around 60-75% at level 60, and obviously less at lower levels. The wiki lists exact percentages per class. In fact, that page has oddly low dual wield rates for warrior, so maybe this class has a particular handicap in OH swing chance. No telling if that's accurate.

Is that 'chance to swing with off-hand' then a further reduction of your off-hand's proc rate on top of the inherently halved chance, or is it the actual genesis of the idea that your off-hand procs less, which has then been inaccurately interpreted as "half the proc rate"? Like maybe there is no direct reduction in OH proc rate, people just figured you only swing with your OH about half the time?

If the former is the case, off-hand proc rates would actually be more like 33% if it's half rate and then further reduced by OH swing chance. In the latter case, if there is no inherent reduction in proc rate but merely a sub-100% chance to swing with your OH, it's more like 70% (at level 60; less before), give or take a bit depending on the exact dual wield skillcap of your class.

Anyone know? I've never seen this discussed before. It seems to me like it has to be one or the other. The OH proc rate can't be exactly 50% of MH if the inherent proc rate is halved while you also have only, say, 70% to even swing your OH in the first place. It also can't be a 50% chance if it's just predicated on your chance to succeed a dual-wield skillcheck, unless it's measured at like level 40 or something where you actually do have only a 50% chance to swing with your OH.

Under no circumstances can it be correct that your off-hand procs half as often as your main when there's no such thing as internal cooldowns on procs. It has to be either "OH is half proc rate and then further reduced by dual wield skill chance" or "OH proc rate is not inherently less, just reduced by dual wield skill chance."

If it should turn out that your OH really does have a built-in halving of proc rate and a further reduction from dual wield chance, thus resulting in a real proc rate closer to 33%, it seems that the proc on your OH weapon counts for very little and stats (such as the +55 dex from blue epic blade if you're not at 255 without it, or the 35 AC from Horn of Hsagra) might count for more than any proc.

[Snaggles]

I haven’t counted procs but did swing a 14/24 primary 1hs and an offhand 9/24 1hb for quite some time with a 60 ranger on Bloodmaw. Offhand swing was like .75% as often as main hand.

EC & Tash stick = 50,571 over 612 seconds = 82dps (686 slash landed / 511 crush landed = .74489 ratio)

Not going to speculate on the rest but just wanted to throw that in since frankly I didn’t know what the offhand did to the MH hit wise until I sat there for a while. 240 1hb, 240 1hs, 240 dual wield skill levels.

[Vivitron]

I swung at Corudoth for about 25 minutes 8 seconds with 140 dex and Silver Whip of Rage prime / Nature's Melody offhand. I got 33 whip procs and 12 dagger procs. Honestly just not enough procs to really learn whether the offhand is 50% or not, but I'm posting it anyway.

[Jimjam]

The off hand has a chance to proc each time its delay timer elapses. It can proc even if dual wield fails to produce a swing. That is why things like pgt or venemous axe are so good in offhand at low levels - dual wield will rarely produce swings but procs happen at the normal offhand rate regardless.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The off hand has a chance to proc each time its delay timer elapses. It can proc even if dual wield fails to produce a swing. That is why things like pgt or venemous axe are so good in offhand at low levels - dual wield will rarely produce swings but procs happen at the normal offhand rate regardless.

Unless p99 is different than live (and based on my experiences it’s not different) this is correct.

Proc rates from buffs (ie Ranger call of sky) is a flat 2 per minute regardless of dex.
Primary proc rate 2 per minute at max dex, scaling down with lower dex
Offhand proc rate 1 per minute at max dex, scaling down with lower dex

Procs don’t require a “hit” to fire. It can happen on a miss or even a missed opportunity (ie a missed dual wield check).

[Ransurian]

Originally Posted by greatdane [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Eh, not really. Root is useful when it's spammable and on demand, but not even slightly reliable as a weapon proc. When you then add the fact that it's very likely to break on the first instance of non-physical damage, it's silly to call Herbalist Spade the best aggro weapon.

In a grind session, it probably won't proc at all on any given mob. Like the odds are maybe 10-20% that you'll ever root a mob, especially once you take resists into account. Root generates almost no aggro through its inherent effect, so it's all predicated on the mechanical aspect of a rooted mob always hitting the closest target.

Compare this to other conventional aggro weapons. When you proc a Frostbringer or whatever, you've almost certainly secured aggro on that mob for the whole 20 seconds it takes to kill it. With a spade, however, you only secure aggro if you proc and it isn't resisted and the root lasts throughout the fight.

Even if we discount mobs that can't be rooted at all (you're unlikely to grind on those), the layers of caveats to root's aggro-holding capabilities make it wildly unreliable as a weapon proc. It's nice on an earth pet that casts it every six seconds or something, but given the abysmal default proc rate and the strong likelihood that any tank in an exp group has crap dex if they aren't buffed by a shaman, it's simply not a good aggro weapon.

Go with weapons for which it doesn't matter if the proc is resisted or not, and where it can't break and become irrelevant at any moment. Besides, you have a 50% higher proc rate when dual-wielding (assuming both weapons have a real aggro proc) than with a 2h weapon. When all of that is taken into account, it takes a special level of ignorance to call the idiot's spade a suitable tank weapon.

As a rogue, I always groan when the tank pulls out a spade. It means he doesn't have aggro 90% of the time, and even when he does proc a root and it isn't resisted, it's unlikely to last more than a few seconds if the group has casters and/or DD-proccing pets. Meanwhile, if the tank knows how the game works and shows up with proper tank weapons, I know that I can go all out as soon as I see the proc graphics of that Frostbringer/Wavecrasher combo or whatever it is he's using. The spade is not a reliable tank weapon at all.

Bruh, lol. Frostbringer proc doesn’t cause that much hate and the ratio sucks. Your typical raid geared dime-a-dozen gigachad rogue that you see everywhere these days is going to have aggro again within like 10 or 15 seconds of a Frostbringer proc.

I’ve tried various combinations of ToV weapons as well as Willsappper, Frostreaver, etc etc and I’ve found that Herbalist’s Spade is generally the best tool for general purpose group use. Frostreaver is a close second thanks to the high ratio and solid proc, but nothing beats root for guaranteeing that even the most obnoxiously overgeared rogues and monks can’t tear aggro from you until the mob is dead. A decent haste item like CoF and a spade is all you need for smooth sailing from 49 to 60.

[Guesty07]

That's absolutely nonsense. Having a pair of agro proc weapons such as willsapper, frostbringer, epic, VP/ToV stuff etc is far better than proc root, which can A. Wear off and B. Be removed by DD.

[Ransurian]

Most aggro proc weapon ratios are substantially inferior to a good 2H, especially in light of Velious 2H damage bonus buffs. Taking that into consideration along with the shovel’s long root time and it’s a no brainer to use it. I’ve tested many 1H weapon combos and I’ve consistently found herbalist’s spade to be superior - the hate is smoother in the absence of procs and the root effect generates plenty of aggro even when it’s dispelled by DD. The dispel issue is less of a problem than you imply in my experience in countless XP groups in the 49 - 60 range.

For raiding? Sure, the spade kinda sucks. But for typical XP camps, it works very well with most group compositions that rely heavily on melee damage, which coincidentally happens to be most groups.