Highspeed rail is B$it

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think overall I am just shocked that trains in general are more expensive than planes.

Varies region by region, ultimately a complex issue with a lot of causes. Here, stateside, a lot Amtrak routes are priced high simply because they know they can and it won't hurt what business they have all that much because most of their customers are picking it for reasons other than cost. Japanese railways, even back to the JNR days, have a history of striving less for cost-efficiency and more for optimal service and punctuality, and they do a good job of it.

A long-gone U.S. railroad, the Virginian, had a slogan that I've long appreciated: "Pay up front for the best." Quality isn't cheap. Constantly doing everything the cheapest you can gets you a race to the bottom and the flying cattle cars we all loathe.

Your railroad route map looks like a mess because so many lines have been torn out over the past seventy years. The class 1's have been abandoning all the branchline and short mileage they can since before any of us were born. They don't want passengers, they don't want LCL business, they don't even want a few loads here and there, they only want the major shippers and long hauls. At one time basically every little town in the nation was connected, and then you had another network of electric interurbans besides. It's gone.

Speed is expensive. A lot of modern turbofan-powered airliners, today, are slower at cruise than some of the turbojet-powered jets from 50 years ago. The modern jets are dramatically cleaner and more cost-effective though. Commuters and regionals have been going back to turboprops and that's slower (and cheaper) still.

Danth

[Jibartik]

America cant even build a decent road and Im going to believe we could lay a delicate spiderweb across the country?

Never gonna happen.

California was supposed to prove states could do it.

Couldn't even do that!

I'm not even certain it'd be better for the environment, what is the actual infrastructure footprint of building all this? Could it be = to air travel today for like 25 years?

We built trains in america once, because we needed them, and they were the best thing we ever invented at the time. But they just dont compare to planes unless your only concern is climate change, which we've passed the point of no return on by like decades anyway so no reason to try to fix that, because Gaia is about to for us. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Couldn't even do that!

I understand why it happens, but even so, it pisses me off at some level that Amtrak, today, usually can't match the speeds railroads were routinely running 80+ years ago when they were stuck with steam engines and heavyweight plain-bearing rolling stock.

That's not even counting the whispers and legends like the claims of the S1 hitting 130 and 140+ on the flatlands west of Crestline and doing it with a thousand-plus tons on the drawbar.

We could've done it, but we elected to go a different route. I agree it's probably the wrong time to try to change tack now. Conditions might change later on.

Danth

[Jibartik]

Conditions might change later on

After ww3 and we rebuild from the ground up!

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it pisses me off at some level that Amtrak, today, usually can't match the speeds railroads were routinely running 80+ years ago

I love trains, theyre so cool, but god damn an amtrak looks like shit. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Old amtrak was cool, pride of my model railroad fleet when I was a kid.

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[Danth]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

After ww3 and we rebuild from the ground up!

One of the side-effects of WW2 was it allowed many cities in Europe, Japan, China, etc to re-develop their city centers and some of them did indeed use it as an opportunity to plan out things like modern transportation corridors.

Most of those F40's are being cut up for scrap these days.

[Jibartik]

One of the side-effects of WW2 was it allowed many cities in Europe, Japan

Yeah Japan completely rebuilt after ww2 and as a result was like the city of the future for like 20 years.

Now it's like a giant casio calculator, but when they finished rebuilding in the 60s-70s and that high quality lasted through the 90s, they were a becon of progress and futurist ideas.

I wonder if dubai is gonna be a giant slum in like 20 years.

Also ww2/japan brought us godzilla and giant anime mechs that destroy cities, as movies [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also...japan brought us godzilla

Another win for the airlines, you never see godzilla swatting at 747's, but in about every film he's always picking up some railway cars and using 'em as chew toys. You're much less likely to be eaten by a giant radioactive lizzard in an airplane.

[Jibartik]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Another win for the airlines, you never see godzilla swatting at 747's, but in about every film he's always picking up some railway cars and using 'em as chew toys. You're much less likely to be eaten by a giant radioactive lizzard in an airplane.

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[Danth]

I also find it slightly amusing how the competition this thread mostly relates to amounts to highspeed rail versus slow air travel. Fast air travel (the SSTs) didn't pan out--too expensive and too loud. I never got to ride Concorde, but I miss it all the same. Coolest commercial A/C ever built.

High speed rail has its own problems with noise, especially going in and out of tunnels. the Japanese have developed some really oddball-looking trainsets in an effort to mitigate the issue.

Danth

[Jimjam]

Concords were really awesome when their tyres didn’t explode into their fuel tanks!

Getting to / through the airport isn’t always a nice experience and often you spend a lot of time sat on the tarmac (sometimes longer than the flight) and then there is security on the other side too. You can’t really compare flight times to rail times cos flying has a lot more mucking about which really slows things down.

It is much better to get a learjet than fly with the oiks. Thats not exactly something everyone is lucky enough to experience often so it isn’t a massed market solution.