Warriors are useless in 90% of the games content

[ya.dingus]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Idk a lot of 50+ levelling is pulling 25 spiders and having a bard / cleric / wizard kite them down… that said maybe SK is better at that…

Is there a reason youre using a tank at all in that situation when the bard is supposed to be aoe snarring to hold agro while the wizard aoes?

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by ya.dingus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ive said it before with things like FSI, or discs, or any other stupid hyper situational focus people like to bring up to justify their class, race combo as being good

I discounted a lot of this assuming you were trolling but do you actually think FSI and racial advantages are in the same ballpark as discs or class mechanics? Have you been on the healing or tanking side of a warrior and a knight? It’s a notable difference.

While I appreciate the notion a flexible group doesn’t need a warrior it’s pretty common sense in 2023. Most the exp content people grind could be druid tanked. I also wouldn’t shun a warrior (unless the person was awful). Generally filling groups based on what is available is the path with a concurrent player base of 400-800 people.

Originally Posted by ya.dingus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is there a reason youre using a tank at all in that situation when the bard is supposed to be aoe snarring to hold agro while the wizard aoes?

Bards don’t have aggro songs anymore. Sorry to break it to you.

[ya.dingus]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I discounted a lot of this assuming you were trolling but do you actually think FSI and racial advantages are in the same ballpark as discs or class mechanics? Have you been on the healing or tanking side of a warrior and a knight? It’s a notable difference.

While I appreciate the notion a flexible group doesn’t need a warrior it’s pretty common sense in 2023. Most the exp content people grind could be druid tanked. I also wouldn’t shun a warrior (unless the person was awful). Generally filling groups based on what is available is the path with a concurrent player base of 400-800 people.



Bards don’t have aggro songs anymore. Sorry to break it to you.

First of all yeah, I used to raid on a dwarf cleric, and group. In groups there is no difference, and Knights are vastly superior to warriors for the sheer fact I dont like breaking my chs just to celestial elixir a nob dps that has no self restraint. I also dont like rebuffing same dps nob when he dies.

Also why micromanage a warrior in zerk when I can get a monk in group thats just as durable and puts out more damage without the need to float his hp? Oh yeah, he can pull reliably too with easier access to cheesing spawns to snipe rares.


FSI talks go in the FSI thread. Math is there.

Only reason you say I was a troll is because you didnt like neither the content of what I said, nor the truth of it. Thats a you problem clownboy.

Youre saying snare/slow doesnt build massive amounts of agro? Link the change in the notes.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Idk a lot of 50+ levelling is pulling 25 spiders and having a bard / cleric / wizard kite them down… that said maybe SK is better at that…

Pally would prob be better at 59 casting hot on themselves and pulling. But warrior disc is pretty good as well I pulled a lot of velks trains that way. With that being said shouldnt be a primary reason to roll a warrior. It was fun though.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by ya.dingus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First of all yeah, I used to raid on a dwarf cleric, and group. In groups there is no difference, and Knights are vastly superior to warriors for the sheer fact I dont like breaking my chs just to celestial elixir a nob dps that has no self restraint. I also dont like rebuffing same dps nob when he dies.

Also why micromanage a warrior in zerk when I can get a monk in group thats just as durable and puts out more damage without the need to float his hp? Oh yeah, he can pull reliably too with easier access to cheesing spawns to snipe rares.


FSI talks go in the FSI thread. Math is there.

Only reason you say I was a troll is because you didnt like neither the content of what I said, nor the truth of it. Thats a you problem clownboy.

Youre saying snare/slow doesnt build massive amounts of agro? Link the change in the notes.

Not on bards no, they nerfed songs to 140 max threat last patch . Feel free to read yourself . Bard aggro is bad now .

[Crede]

Originally Posted by ya.dingus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is there a reason youre using a tank at all in that situation when the bard is supposed to be aoe snarring to hold agro while the wizard aoes?

Its a lot easier on the bard to have someone else pull. Wiz can pull it with epic rune but warrior mitigation with disc way better than an 800 pt wiz rune.

[Snaggles]

You could root the mob and yell at dps to stand back. Or have someone else root the mob. Better yet, don’t heal the dps. It’s group-level content; if they can’t live with a fungi tunic they probably should learn how to play the game better. I can’t remember the last time any of my non-tanks got a cleric heal besides right after a rez.

Really, do whatever you want. If you can pick and choose your tank, carpe diem.

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pally would prob be better at 59 casting hot on themselves and pulling. But warrior disc is pretty good as well I pulled a lot of velks trains that way. With that being said shouldnt be a primary reason to roll a warrior. It was fun though.

Can also DA at the start or channel a DA pretty easy while the train is growing. Literally every crit lull fail DA is my next click. It’s not a defensive disc but 18min CD is functional to mix in on occasion. Plus LoH on the run.

[Lune]

Yikes. Lots of people who have no clue what they are talking about...

Warriors bring significantly more dps than a knight given similar gear, and no, DPS does not have diminishing returns within the scope of this topic unless the content is completely trivial for what you've brought, in which case any additional member is useless. Some pretty basic logic there.

Most DPS in this game worth bringing have some pretty robust agro management tools such that, given equal gear and skill, warrior agro is not going to be a big issue unless you're a pants-on-head newb.

Is the warrior's extra dps and tankiness worth losing knight snap agro and utility? Depends on your comp and camp. But with some really basic agro management warrior is almost certainly going to produce higher xp/hour, especially considering that outside of end-stage eternal Velious, for the vast majority of the timeline, knights have a dirty, stinking 40% XP penalty (into the 60's if you're a fatty or iksar). Additionally, warriors are infinitely better than knights for applications such as duos and trios, specifically duoing with ubiquitous shamans.

And I say that as a longtime knight aficionado, really the only role I love to play outside rangers.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yikes. Lots of people who have no clue what they are talking about...

Warriors bring significantly more dps than a knight given similar gear, and no, DPS does not have diminishing returns within the scope of this topic unless the content is completely trivial for what you've brought, in which case any additional member is useless. Some pretty basic logic there.

Most DPS in this game worth bringing have some pretty robust agro management tools such that, given equal gear and skill, warrior agro is not going to be a big issue unless you're a pants-on-head newb.

Is the warrior's extra dps and tankiness worth losing knight snap agro and utility? Depends on your comp and camp. But with some really basic agro management warrior is almost certainly going to produce higher xp/hour, especially considering that outside of end-stage eternal Velious, for the vast majority of the timeline, knights have a dirty, stinking 40% XP penalty (into the 60's if you're a fatty or iksar). Additionally, warriors are infinitely better than knights for applications such as duos and trios, specifically duoing with ubiquitous shamans.

And I say that as a longtime knight aficionado, really the only role I love to play outside rangers.

I'm genuinely curious if there's data to support warrior DPS just being significantly more than knight DPS, especially for groups. Knights are on the same damage table as warriors and also benefit from the 2h bonus now. This isn't vanilla where knights truly did suck. SKs final 52/58 pets can also quad for 39/46. I recently leveled a warrior to 60, was using KT axe. I know it's not great, but never once felt I was blowing my knights away in DPS.

[Lune]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm genuinely curious if there's data to support warrior DPS just being significantly more than knight DPS, especially for groups. Knights are on the same damage table as warriors and also benefit from the 2h bonus now. This isn't vanilla where knights truly did suck. SKs final 52/58 pets can also quad for 39/46. I recently leveled a warrior to 60, was using KT axe. I know it's not great, but never once felt I was blowing my knights away in DPS.

Knights are on the same backend damage table as warriors but their skills are not, and again, that is only mid to late Velious (over-represented in the life of the server but really a small slice of the actual timeline of progression). Paltry 225 offense/weapon skill cap for knights, 250 for warriors, which you really feel on high level mobs. But you're right, they are certainly closer during this point in the timeline. During classic, Kunark, and the first part of Velious warriors are in a different league altogether.

This is from years of me parsing my ranger's groups trying to prove a point.