NPC melee fix(ed?)

[Kantan]

Originally Posted by Aeolwind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We checked through the code, block and AC calculations are done equally for all classes. So, there is nothing to un-nerf. IE 900 ac on a warrior is the same as 900ac on a cleric or (holy crap tank) 900ac wizard.

The defensive skills not firing correctly has me puzzled. Rogean has more experience poking around, but the seem to fire for other classes, just not monk.

Monks have a different AC multiplier and cap than other classes also block should work much more frequently than it currently does. I'll see if I can find the abashi comments.

[Aeolwind]

That should not be the case. Monk and warrior had same AC softcap, and with the advent of all the ALL/ALL Gear in velious, monks could tank as well as warriors. At that point is when they invented plate AC, Cloth AC, Leather AC, and Chain AC and broke it down. So monks and druids mitigated the same, and clerics and warriors mitigated the same, etc.

Before, they were all equal, they just controlled the amount of AC available by controlling classes. When all that lucious TOV ALL/ALL stuff came into play, it went foul. 5ac of cloth was the same as 5ac of bronze.

[Tenudil]

Haven't had enought time to get significant parses, but from what I have seen, it looks pretty good overall. Hit rates seem to be pretty close to what i would expect on green through even con mobs without having all the avoidance skills yet. Higher con mobs might actually be missing more then they should right now.

Originally Posted by guineapig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is not how it should be. Wizards and monks have completely different AC soft caps than warriors or clerics.

There are separate soft caps for plate, chain, leather and cloth and hence AC should only be calculated the same until a soft cap is hit, then it starts changing drastically. 900AC for example is way beyond all soft caps in classic.

I doubt those existed in the forms you are familiar with in classic, if they existed at all then. They were likely introduced in the Kunark expansion and involved the actual total raw AC of the items before being equipped. IE not based on the AC value shown by the client.

Just posting this to show that they aren't likely to get met anytime soon here anyway.
Cloth..........= ~75 worn AC
Leather......= ~100 worn AC
Monk..........= ~120 worn AC
Chain.........= ~200 worn AC
Plate .........= ~300 worn AC

I did find an interesting post from a pre PoP parse that was actually made by SOE when dealing with the monk nerf. It is obviously from the Luclin era and involved lvl 51's and lvl 60's fighting mobs 3 to 4 levels lower, but you might find some use from it.

http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum...ight=monk+nerf

Class War Pal Mnk
Level 51 51 51
Raw Item AC 184 181 107
Agility 157 144 169
Dodge 3.4% 3.1% 4.4%
Block 0 % 0% 10.2%
Riposte 4.4% 3.9% 4.1%
Parry 5.2% 4.6% 0%
Skill Evasion 12.9% 11.5% 18.7%
Hit Rate 61.2% 61.3% 58.2%
Avg Hit 72.6 72.9 74.6
% Hits for Max 10.2% 10.5% 11.5%
Avg Dmg / Round 59.7 61.1 54.5
DPS 28.2 28.8 25.7


Class War Pal Mnk
Level 60 60 60
Raw Item AC 296 281 163
Agility 177 152 187
Dodge 4.3% 3.9% 4.9%
Block 0 % 0% 11.4%
Riposte 4.8% 4.3% 4.5%
Parry 5.8% 5.2% 0%
Skill Evasion 14.9% 13.4% 20.8%
Hit Rate 59.4% 59.7% 59.3%
Avg Hit 107.3 109.9 113.6
% Hits for Max 10.4% 11.7% 13.6%
Avg Dmg / Round 87.4 91.7 86.1
DPS 50.8 53.3 50

[Haynar]

I thought all classes with same worn (not item) AC mitigated equally until either SoL or PoP. Then they had the great monk nerf, cuz monks of same AC, with their higher avoidance, were the best tanks. Then they got nerfed into oblivion. Then sometime later they got restored to be almost as good as they were. But nowhere near as good as they were in Velious.

Haynar

[Kantan]

Whats the calcl. For ac per pt of agility? Is it the same across the board? Maybe the damage problem with isolated to block and the extra 10% avoidance.

[Halladar]

Look I don't have any parses, but when I first started pre-kunark there wasn't all these jokes about rangers dying quickly. They took hits it seems to me as well as any other melee. Warriors were preferred because they had more hp's, and their gear had better stats for tanking (AC, hp's, etc.) And they held aggro much better than pallies and sk's did then.

Pallies had problems holding aggro because they couldn't dual wield, and didn't do much damage. At the time taunt worked better, but aggro was a weird thing.

Fast weapons with procs were what let you get and hold aggro.

Pallies really didn't start using spells to get aggro till Kunark. Before that most hybrids didn't use their mana much in groups. That is a statement of things as I remember it. SK's didn't do much other than toss a few taps if their hp's were low at the end, or snare if no one else could.

I'm not sure when the delay thing happened but it used to be that it spellcasting delayed a swing for hybrids, so they usually didn't cast in combat because they lost dps. They changed it later so that it kind of didn't interfere as much. (ex say your weapon was a 40 delay and you cast a 25 delay spell. Your spell time could be contained in the weapon delay time, so you didn't lose an attack.) That was just for hybrids though.

Basically until Kunark at least what separated a caster from a melee were the skills like parry, riposte, and much higher dodge caps that let them evade more hits. And higher hp's and gear that had higher ac.

[Halladar]

Just wanted to add, in 1999 two handed damage sucked. They changed the main hand damage bonus later to give the high delay weapons more viability.

That main hand bonus made some funky problems for verant.

Which I guess you intend to duplicate with the moss covered twig/branch thing.

[Halladar]

Aggro was an odd thing back then. Maybe it still is.

Just another addendum. If you doubt me look at the old Paladins of Norrath or steelwarrior boards from that time.

A yak would hold better aggro than a 2 hander with a better ratio. The Electrum Bladed Wakizashi was good for that too.

More fast swings, just gave you more aggro somehow, independently of the main hand bonus that made some low delay weapons so much freakishly better than weapons with a higher ratio.

[Zarniwooop]

Anything was better.

I recall soloing fairly easily on dark blues way back. Not like a joke at all, but one mob wasn't a serious danger unless it was yellow.

[lr672931]

"Look I don't have any parses, but when I first started pre-kunark there wasn't all these jokes about rangers dying quickly." - Halladar

I was a ranger in 1999 and rangers were the bottom of every joke..at least on Quellious >< Or maybe it was just me! Either way rangers used to be pansies in 1999, they slowly found their niche later on though.

Anyways, I definitely seem to tank a bit better after the patch. Whether it's where it is supposed to be i dont know. However, taunt never works for me. As stated above i was a ranger back in the day and didn't switch to a warrior till PoP days.. so I don't have classic taunt experience to compare it to. Was it really this bad back then?

Seems to be that the only mobs that i can succesfully taunt if i'm lucky, are light blue or green.

wtb AE taunt or provoke/intice(sp?)

-Yopie 27 war.