Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It’s cute that you are searching other non related threads to try and gain some ground in this on me. It shows me how pathetically desperate you are, while still failing to provide any relevant data, despite going completely out of your way. I won’t even grace you with a rebuttal to that, I’ll let others discover the truth if they so choose.

I am not sure why you need to act so hostile. I agree with what you said about pocket clerics. They are great for resing when you don't have a Cleric in the group.

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nice try failing to downplay clerics. Stun command lasts 9 seconds, so you’d have to get another break in 21 seconds for it to not work again, but even then they have multiple other stuns they can use for backup. It is objectively true that stun is the best defense against charm breaks compared to anything the shaman offers. And in the event that the mob is stun immune, the cleric can both rip/heal better than the shaman if needed, and root as well.

I am not attempting to downplay Clerics. I am saying there are weaknesses to Stun Command, and that is true. You are also gaining things from a Shaman's utility, so it isn't a straight loss. You already have 2 overlapping stuns for a charm break with the Enchanters. Malosini reduces the changes of a Charm Break, which factors into the equation. Shamans are also a lot tankier than a Cleric. If the Cleric is getting beaten on while the Enchanters also have a Charm Break, your group could be in trouble. A Shaman can generally power through those situations while helping out the other team members at the same time.

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The fact that you think the shaman is saving the mana of an enchanter by slowing tells me You know nothing about enchanter play. If an enchanter is allowed to keep a pet, they have no mana issues. Between c2, tot, wandering mind, etc they are more than fine. They can also use lower level slows, like tepid, or give their pet a swarm caller if they need to save some mana for some rare reason. In fact I used tepid for majority of content as 70+% slow is usually overkill.

I understand Enchanter play just fine. Enchanters can spend a lot of mana on occasion, and it's better for them to have more mana when that occurs. It increases survivability, and reduces med breaks.

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Enchanters translate into all group compositions because of their charm dps. I’m not sure why you keep failing to realize this, or just purposely neglect it which you’re likely doing.

Enchanters are the best because of their unrestricted Charming + unbeatable CC. They have two things that no other class has, and they combine well together. An Enchanter uses both of these things in solo situations, and the same solo strategies translate into a group. This is why it isn't a coincidence that they are an amazing solo class + an amazing group class.

The same logic applies with Shamans. They get unparalleled mana regeneration and are great at tanking. They allow your group to play longer without med breaks because they don't need med breaks, and can share some of the duties of an Enchanter.

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So yes, you can scale them indefinitely from solo to group play. 6 enchanters in a group is perfectly fine. 6 shamans would just be all clicking their jbb in desperation.

A group of 6 Enchanters would be getting bad experience, and wouldn't be getting more named mob kills per hour. It is why you don't see groups of 6 people XPing, or groups of 6 Enchanters killing named mobs. If you have played on this server for a length of time, you would notice this trend. People know about the DPS limitations intuitively, even if they don't know how to describe it.

I understand why it is easy to fall into this trap. DPS scales linearly. If you can kill a mob every 40 seconds without pause for an hour, you get 90 kills per hour. If you can kill a mob every 20 seconds without pause for an hour, you get 180 kills per hour. On paper that sounds like more DPS = more kills. Unfortunately, there are no areas in the game where you could pull 180 mobs in an hour. Respawn times cause DPS to fall off after a certain point, depending on the camp. As a quick example, lets say you are camping a mob on a 5 minute timer, and you take a full minute to kill it. That means you are getting 10 kills per hour. If you double your DPS and kill the mob in 30 seconds, you are only getting 11 kills an hour. You are doubling your DPS, but only getting a 10% boost in experience. Everquest 1 is simply not built to handle groups killing 180 mobs per hour.

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, shamans are an acceptable class. If you want to roll with one, that’s fine. It’s just that clerics are objectively better in this group comp.

You still haven't provided any evidence to back this claim up.

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nobody is doing hate minis without a rez at their beck and call, everyone knows this except for the loser who leveled one class to 60 and now has to keep arguing that it’s the bestest, most special one. You’re all arguing with a dude who has 1 lv60 with mediocre raid gear on a 13 year old eq1 server. The most elite camps he can think of are fungi king and PoM static rooms. It’s extremely funny when he gets wound up and tries to be witty but please don’t take him seriously.

When you can't win with facts and logic, you resort to straw men. You would know that it is easy to get a Cleric for a res, even in Hate. If you can get into hate, you have a porter. As you said earlier, this game is easy. You don't need a dedicated Cleric just for that. It is the same reason you aren't suggesting a dedicated Necromancer for corpse summons.

[Ripqozko]

This man is now in kittens, im sorry all kittens.

[fortior]

They took him, it’s their own fault

[7thGate]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Unfortunately, there are no areas in the game where you could pull 180 mobs in an hour.

While there are few, there are multiple camps where you can pull 180 mobs an hour if you can kill them.

Blam Stick camp, Plate House, Siren's Grotto can all do 180 mobs an hour most of the time since the first two have unlimited spawns and SG just has enough untouched stuff in it most of the time that you can do 180 mobs an hour. The hole can also support 180 mobs/hour while crawling depending on how many other people are XPing in the zone. I suspect you can also do a skyshrine crawl with that much DPS and be able to continue to find things to kill, but I'm less certain there.

Also, 55+ stun immunity isn't really very often relevant for charm breaks, as you need to be using dictate on anything 54+. And while dictate is awesome and lets you do some super cool stuff, it tends to be more special case and highly structured in how you use it.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not sure why you need to act so hostile. I agree with what you said about pocket clerics. They are great for resing when you don't have a Cleric in the group.



I am not attempting to downplay Clerics. I am saying there are weaknesses to Stun Command, and that is true. You are also gaining things from a Shaman's utility, so it isn't a straight loss. You already have 2 overlapping stuns for a charm break with the Enchanters. Malosini reduces the changes of a Charm Break, which factors into the equation. Shamans are also a lot tankier than a Cleric. If the Cleric is getting beaten on while the Enchanters also have a Charm Break, your group could be in trouble. A Shaman can generally power through those situations while helping out the other team members at the same time.



I understand Enchanter play just fine. Enchanters can spend a lot of mana on occasion, and it's better for them to have more mana when that occurs. It increases survivability, and reduces med breaks.



Enchanters are the best because of their unrestricted Charming + unbeatable CC. They have two things that no other class has, and they combine well together. An Enchanter uses both of these things in solo situations, and the same solo strategies translate into a group. This is why it isn't a coincidence that they are an amazing solo class + an amazing group class.

The same logic applies with Shamans. They get unparalleled mana regeneration and are great at tanking. They allow your group to play longer without med breaks because they don't need med breaks, and can share some of the duties of an Enchanter.



A group of 6 Enchanters would be getting bad experience, and wouldn't be getting more named mob kills per hour. It is why you don't see groups of 6 people XPing, or groups of 6 Enchanters killing named mobs. If you have played on this server for a length of time, you would notice this trend. People know about the DPS limitations intuitively, even if they don't know how to describe it.

I understand why it is easy to fall into this trap. DPS scales linearly. If you can kill a mob every 40 seconds without pause for an hour, you get 90 kills per hour. If you can kill a mob every 20 seconds without pause for an hour, you get 180 kills per hour. On paper that sounds like more DPS = more kills. Unfortunately, there are no areas in the game where you could pull 180 mobs in an hour. Respawn times cause DPS to fall off after a certain point, depending on the camp. As a quick example, lets say you are camping a mob on a 5 minute timer, and you take a full minute to kill it. That means you are getting 10 kills per hour. If you double your DPS and kill the mob in 30 seconds, you are only getting 11 kills an hour. You are doubling your DPS, but only getting a 10% boost in experience. Everquest 1 is simply not built to handle groups killing 180 mobs per hour.



You still haven't provided any evidence to back this claim up.



When you can't win with facts and logic, you resort to straw men. You would know that it is easy to get a Cleric for a res, even in Hate. If you can get into hate, you have a porter. As you said earlier, this game is easy. You don't need a dedicated Cleric just for that. It is the same reason you aren't suggesting a dedicated Necromancer for corpse summons.

So much nonsense, trolling, and goalpost shifting here. Nobody believes any of this, it’s sad you have to resort to this when you’ve clearly lost. When your group dps failed miserably, you now attempt to troll out clerics as well.

Come back when you’ve actually played the game and understand how group dynamics work.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nobody is doing hate minis without a rez at their beck and call, everyone knows this except for the loser who leveled one class to 60 and now has to keep arguing that it’s the bestest, most special one. You’re all arguing with a dude who has 1 lv60 with mediocre raid gear on a 13 year old eq1 server. The most elite camps he can think of are fungi king and PoM static rooms. It’s extremely funny when he gets wound up and tries to be witty but please don’t take him seriously.

He’s just a troll that tries harder than most trolls when he’s lost an argument.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So much nonsense, trolling, and goalpost shifting here. Nobody believes any of this, it’s sad you have to resort to this when you’ve clearly lost. When your group dps failed miserably, you now attempt to troll out clerics as well.

Come back when you’ve actually played the game and understand how group dynamics work.

Still waiting on some evidence for any of your claims. You don't just get to say someone lost. I could do the same thing, and we would be at an impasse.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by 7thGate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

While there are few, there are multiple camps where you can pull 180 mobs an hour if you can kill them.

Blam Stick camp, Plate House, Siren's Grotto can all do 180 mobs an hour most of the time since the first two have unlimited spawns and SG just has enough untouched stuff in it most of the time that you can do 180 mobs an hour. The hole can also support 180 mobs/hour while crawling depending on how many other people are XPing in the zone. I suspect you can also do a skyshrine crawl with that much DPS and be able to continue to find things to kill, but I'm less certain there.

Also, 55+ stun immunity isn't really very often relevant for charm breaks, as you need to be using dictate on anything 54+. And while dictate is awesome and lets you do some super cool stuff, it tends to be more special case and highly structured in how you use it.

You make a good point that there are a few areas that have scripted spawns on demand. But you can't get 180 kills an hour at platehouse unless you bring multiple groups, and that isn't an XP group scenario.

As for SG and Hole, it would still be tough to get 180 mobs due to travel time between mobs. I would love to see something like that though! I think a video showing a high speed SG crawl would be really fun to watch.

I think you would agree that the vast majority of XP groups are not doing 180 mobs an hour, and the vast majority of XP camps don't support that many kills.

As for stun immunity, I was referring to the mobs you are fighting moreso than the charmed mob. You can't use stun command in an emergency situation with a tougher mob, but you can have the Shaman slow the mob.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Still waiting on evidence

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

# of posts about Shamans improving the DPS of their group via Root-Rotting multiple mobs parallel to the group: tens? hundreds?

# of posts including evidence of such: 0

[Fragged]

4 Shadow Knights.

3 of them meditate while the last one chain casts level 4 necro spells until OOM. Rotate one by one for INFINITE level 4 necro spells.