Which race is better for Paladin: Dwarf or Half Elf?

[Trelaboon]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I barely am with it, and I put into stam as human

I will say that’s wearing a Rocksmasher. If I’m wearing literally any of my other weapon options (I don’t have Tunare or Vulak weapon) I BARELY cap stamina buffed. Literally down to the point.

[Ripqozko]

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209 stam, and i have pretty good gear. im only over by 4. of course i could use pots and such for the 50 stackable but thats buff slots.

[Snaggles]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Vojun

70 base sta with Rocksmasher. Not the best gear but not all EC tunnel either. Im like 3str from capping with Yaulp4 and Focus. 15 str 5 agil as I recall.

[Gustoo]

I’d probably do a dwarf with 5 agility and the rest wisdom but maybe I’m an asshole

I’m never gunna get the robe, main reason.

Still toughest call in the game

[sajbert]

Originally Posted by Gustoo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

IÂ’d probably do a dwarf with 5 agility and the rest wisdom but maybe IÂ’m an asshole

IÂ’m never gunna get the robe, main reason.

Still toughest call in the game

I don't quite understand the 5 agi thing. It's easy to find +5 agi somewhere in gear even during early to mid classic.

As for going wisdom, yeah, I can understand that. I was looking at some BIS-setups and even with a High Elf it's difficult to do unless you put points into wisdom or go for Robe of Azure Sky. I think it's unquestionably the most relevant stat for paladins with the possible exception of charisma.

If you go Dwarf without dumping all points into charisma I think you're sentencing your paladin to a life without lull-splitting and that's a shame, the toolkit is very thin without lulls. 20 points into charisma appears to equate around -5% chance of critical resist in the 100-200 cha range. That I feel is significant, even with the help of Luminary Two Handed Sword and Kobold Jester's Crown and a bit of charisma gear you won't get anywhere close to 200 charisma on a Dwarf, especially with no points in charisma upon creation.

As for the robe. Honestly, outside of fashion, Chestplate of Vindication seems like the better pick. Aura of Battle. 15hp and 27 AC > 20 wisdom and 100mana. Vindi BP is also significantly easier to get, you gotta wait until Velious though.

If a new server hit today I still wouldn't know which race to go should I roll paladin. I get a good feeling when I look at dwarves and maybe that's the right pick for that reason.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by sajbert [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you go Dwarf without dumping all points into charisma I think you're sentencing your paladin to a life without lull-splitting and that's a shame, the toolkit is very thin without lulls.

Lulls are the backbone of the class now? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They still work with only 55 CHA; just way less reliably. A mild bump makes it completely tolerable. With overseer signets, jester crown, luminary sword, and crude stein that’s at least 90 extra CHA. That puts a dwarf in the mid 100’s. With a 400p dragon mask and a Loddy shield you can add 24 more points. That’s like 170 with a dwarf.

I carry around a 220ish kit, mainly because I’m a tad obsessive and keep telling myself “what if you need it?” I’ve never really “needed it” and only have used it like twice in 5 years, and never while soloing to 60.

I get the feverous napkin math but this “lull end game” feels like an inside joke that went too far.

[Ennewi]

Lodi shield is another one of those expensive, hard to replace items that also happens to lower agi. Djarn's ring will more than make up for it, but not for fungi or both. It's not like there aren't other items with agi, especially at endgame, it's just annoying having to account for it all until then. But yeah, cha is conveniently cheap and there are other items on top of ones previously mentioned to bump the numbers up higher. Other than jaspers for BP clicks, paladins don't tend to need a lot of bag space.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Froststone_Stein

With crude, can dual wield steins, having the side benefit of cold resists in case lull crit fails versus a caster.

[Bockscar]

Originally Posted by sajbert [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't quite understand the 5 agi thing. It's easy to find +5 agi somewhere in gear even during early to mid classic.

It actually isn't. You can get agility if you choose to wear a shitty item, but in all likelihood, your BIS pre-Velious contains no item that gives agility. Or, if it does, it's some obscure shit like (in the case of paladins) planar legs. And then you get to Kunark where your class set has no stats at all except for the chest and legs which most players won't have access to. It's not until you get to Velious endgame content that you can just count on having agility on items that you wanted to wear anyway. Up until then, it takes either gear that most players won't have (e.g. Kunark set bp/legs) or items that you wouldn't normally wear but need to do so in order to get the agility. This is why you raise it to 75 just so you don't have to wear a fucking Serpentine Bracer like a moron.

[sajbert]

Originally Posted by Bockscar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It actually isn't. You can get agility if you choose to wear a shitty item, but in all likelihood, your BIS pre-Velious contains no item that gives agility. Or, if it does, it's some obscure shit like (in the case of paladins) planar legs. And then you get to Kunark where your class set has no stats at all except for the chest and legs which most players won't have access to. It's not until you get to Velious endgame content that you can just count on having agility on items that you wanted to wear anyway. Up until then, it takes either gear that most players won't have (e.g. Kunark set bp/legs) or items that you wouldn't normally wear but need to do so in order to get the agility. This is why you raise it to 75 just so you don't have to wear a fucking Serpentine Bracer like a moron.

But since you’d be dumping attribute points into it you’d basically have a serpentine bracer (or djarn’s) that gives you 5 sta or wis or cha - whatever you spent points on. And sure there’s fungi penalty (and someone mentioned lodi shield?) but there are valorium greaves, hiero cloak, spiked seahorse hide belt, deepwater greaves, shroud of veeshan, 6-necks. Sure you may be stuck with the one suboptimal piece for a while like a forest loop but that’s no biggie to me in the grand scheme of things. For the same reason I wouldn’t slap 20 starting str on a rogue and no one would bat an eyebrow at that.

I still say 5 agi on ogre, erudite and dwarf is a trap.

[Bockscar]

I mean, I was literally talking specifically about 5 agi on ogre/erudite/dwarf. I wasn't advocating for raising agility on the races that already start with 75+. The stat is pure garbage if you have 75 already.

It's a very small price to pay, dumping five points into it in order to never have to worry about it at all. Otherwise you have to wear some agility item at all times, and up until Velious, you are at best paying out the nose for something like a Necklace of Superiority, just to not wear something truly awful for the sheer sake of getting those agility points. That's why the races that don't start with 75+ agi need to dump five points into it.