#4111
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You questioned my critical reading skills, and I was pointing out that you've already acknowledged those skills. I wasn't trying to point out that you had made a mistake, because I already understand that the post of mine you read mistakenly was easy to misunderstand. Not your fault! Have a great day! | |||
#4112
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For example, for my cleric I rolled dwarf and put all my points into charisma. Probably not min/max optimal! I really enjoy it! | |||
#4113
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I am simply saying that a group worried about leveling as fast as humanly possible is generally going to be trying to reach max level. That is why you want an efficient group. The longer it takes to level, the longer it will take you to start farming the good stuff at 60. Players who are more casual like yourself (they don't think they will hit 60) are typically just enjoying the experience of the game. If they get invited to a group that isn't optimally built, they will be more likely to play with that group anyway. The experience of playing with the group trumps the loss of efficiency.
__________________
Shamwowi Wipesalot (60 SHM) | Bazgek Bonebreaker (60 SK) | Sznake Pliszken (52 MNK) | Laanfear (30 ENC)
Do you have questions about Shaman races? Read my guide: https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwow...man_Race_Guide Want to see Shaman videos? Check out my youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFU...zEFJVBIH3-jUog | |||
Last edited by DeathsSilkyMist; 06-28-2023 at 04:45 PM..
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#4114
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Last edited by bcbrown; 06-28-2023 at 04:55 PM..
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#4115
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I am simply pointing out that lower level content is easier than high level content. If you are mostly expecting to reach level 55 and stop, there are plenty of great group compositions that can take you there quickly. As long as you don't pick something extremely off like 4 Rogues, you will be fine. If your group plans on just having some fun, 4 Mages is a great composition in the low levels. You will churn through mobs and level quickly. Unfortunately that group doesn't work too well once you hit 60, so you end up paying the price for that decision if you change your mind about reaching 60. That is why it is better to think about what you are going to do at 60, even if you never reach it. Then you won't have the problem of leveling a class to 60 and realizing you can't do the things you wanted with that particular class. This is one downside to leveling a Cleric in this four man group. If you reach 60 and your group disbands, you won't be able to solo as well as a Shaman. I am not saying having a level 60 Cleric is bad in any way, but it is something you should think about. Those 3x Enchanters are going to be doing great in terms of soloing good stuff.
__________________
Shamwowi Wipesalot (60 SHM) | Bazgek Bonebreaker (60 SK) | Sznake Pliszken (52 MNK) | Laanfear (30 ENC)
Do you have questions about Shaman races? Read my guide: https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwow...man_Race_Guide Want to see Shaman videos? Check out my youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFU...zEFJVBIH3-jUog | |||
Last edited by DeathsSilkyMist; 06-28-2023 at 05:26 PM..
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#4116
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This discussion is simply about the "best" 4 person all caster/priest group - and a Rogue (or 4) have absolutely no place in such a group at all simply because they are NOT a Caster or a Priest, so I am not sure why you brought that class up in this discussion or what relevance you think those other particular points above have to this discussion. Objectively, "Best" does not necessarily mean "fastest to hit level 60 (via exclusively doing constant xp grinding or otherwise)" - although that may certainly be some players'/posters' opinion of what would define the best group! The objective "best" group MIGHT happen to get to 60 faster compared to other group compositions (particularly if the hypothetical "best" group members are all neckbeards who work from home and/or are unemployed/retired that play 8-16+ hours a day, presumably they'll get to 60 faster than groups consisting of players who play less frequently and/or for shorter play-sessions), but it certainly doesn't have to be (and is not necessarily going to be) the case that the "best" group will level up as fast as possible for sole purpose of levelling up fast / getting to 60. The objective "best" group just might play together as a static 4-man group that only logs in one night a week for 2-6 hours and they might be more interested in experiencing particular camps or dungeons they enjoy (or that some of them don't have much experience with on Live, etc.) rather than being concerned with farming in the best ZEM zone. Regardless of the specifics, there will likely be classes (some combination of 1-4) that are able to provide the group the "best" tools to achieve the goals of the group. In order to have a MEANINGFUL discussion about what class is or isn't OBJECTIVELY best for a given scenario and move past OPINIONS of classes in general, we simply have to start with a scenario / some agreed upon starting conditions. It is unhelpful to the discussion and hypocritical to say "I decline your preconditions" when a particular poster attempts to actually directly engage with you in discussion that is/would be RELEVANT to the thread, and it is unhelpful to the discussion & hypocritical to meanwhile continue attempting to apply your own specifications to the discussion (such as "You have to think about what a level 60 is doing" as a recent example) when the question of what is "best" remains ENTIRELY subjective and undefined at this point in the discussion due to your refusal, because if you can't agree upon a scenario/starting point, then to use your (DSM's) own verbiage "you are comparing Apples to Oranges" and you will continue to be "comparing apples to oranges" unless/until a direct comparison can actually be made in an at least somewhat defined scenario wherein one class vs another class can be measured/judged/scored etc. in some capacity, and thereby be proven/disproven to be "best" for the group's needs (again, based on what each of the FOUR characters/classes in question offers & the group's overall and/or specific goals). Another poster (Troxx I believe it was?) wanted to compare Mage vs Shaman parses in high level group with you months ago, but you conceded / opted out / chose not to participate.... it's all in the post history. I am not sure why you adamantly refused to simply go join a group & do the things your (tens of? hundreds of?) posts were fervently claiming you could/can do. Meanwhile, you yourself - intentionally or not & knowingly or not - actively try to limit the discussion to specific scenarios which favor the Shaman class that you like to play, such as suggesting/implying that only level 60 activities matter/are relevant so that the hypothetical Shaman in the hypothetical group can have Torpor spell and gear/DPS clickies, and claiming such things as you previously claimed in earlier retorts you have posted in this thread, like essentially saying "if your group cares about doing DPS, then you have to let a Shaman root rot adjacent to the main/rest of the group otherwise you don't really care about DPS" (despite you also arguing the DPS isn't relevant anyway due to not being enough to achieve additional kills per hour), when to this day you have - still - not provided ANY evidence (even though evidence has been requested from you multiple times, by multiple posters) that you have EVER done such a thing with your Shaman in a group a single time, much less it being a common occurrence. Instead you copy/pasted a bunch of raw math which doesn't translate into real life. Many posters (myself including) communicated this information to you multiple times. It appeared that after being advised/reminded that the "data" you kept providing was irrelevant data enough times, you finally seemed to understand that simple irrefutable fact... and yet... Here and now once again, you are back in this thread and have the nerve to make posts claiming that OTHERS need to prove you wrong and provide you with evidence. Quote:
You are trying to demand evidence while you have quite clearly demonstrated - by making 1,300+ posts none of which containing any relevant evidence - that you will gladly continue to "argue" fervently and make hundreds of posts while continuing to NEVER provide ANY relevant evidence yourself? You demanding evidence from others is almost as laughable as the following Quotes of your own blatant flip-flopping, goal-post moving & hypocrisy which you have yet to address/reply to/acknowledge/defend/challenge/attempt to refute: DSM simply has not addressed/replied to/acknowledged/defended/challenged/attempted to refute the following: DSM has repeatedly provided copy/pastes which simply do not contain any evidence or data of his Shaman performing DPS - or any other action/activity - in an environment/context/scenario that is (or would be) relevant to the discussion; hence his copy/pastes are irrelevant to this discussion. While DSM is - seemingly - unable or unwilling to provide relevant evidence/data that supports his many claims/statements/positions (which change when he moves the goalposts & edits his posts), I have irrefutable proof of the following, which DSM has as of yet not addressed/replied to/acknowledged/defended/challenged/attempted to refute: Here is irrefutable proof/evidence - which cannot be refuted, and which is self-evident - of DSM attempting to move the goalposts by bringing a 5th "pocket" character into his "arguments" (even though this is intended to be a civil discussion - not an argument) pertaining to the "Best 4 person all caster/priest group" discussion": Quote:
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For these reasons - which I have repeatedly stated - I am not sure which particular/specific belief/claim/stance/"argument"(s) that DSM is currently holding/defending/"arguing"; it would be helpful if he could elaborate/clarify/specify for the sake of civil discussion. I am also not sure why DSM has continued to copy/paste his - irrelevant - data, after this exchange occured - which cannot be refuted & is visible and clear in the cleary visible post history - which DSM simply has as of yet not addressed/replied to/acknowledged/defended/challenged/attempted to refute Quote:
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The ball is - still - in DSM's court if he has relevant, factual data to support his various positions/claims/"argument"(s) - and is willing to clarify which particular position/claim/argument(s) he currently holds/"argues", as they change when he moves goalposts or edits his posts - and/or if he would like to provide the definitions he is using for "troll"/"trolling", "nonsense", "silly", "vitriol", "new" and "win" for the sake of civil discussin hehe. | ||||||||||||||||||
Last edited by cyxthryth; 06-28-2023 at 07:03 PM..
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#4117
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If people like PlsNoBan were "trolls", then he was only giving you a taste of your own medicine.
I can tell that DSM is one those arseholes in real life who passive-aggressively hide behind a mask whenever someone criticises him over the smallest things. | ||
#4119
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There is a good takeaway from this thread as I've said before:
People believe whatever they want to believe -- they don't care about the truth. Doesn't matter how strong your reasoning is. Doesn't matter if twenty people or more unite against you. Doesn't matter if you present the most objective facts and show the numbers. Doesn't matter how inconsequential the topic is. A person will want to believe they're their own hero, no matter the circumstances. And that, to me, is very depressing. This is why a person like DSM inspires so much hatred within me. | ||
#4120
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It doesn't matter if multiple people disagree with you. That doesn't automatically mean they are correct and you are incorrect. That is an ad populum fallacy. People can simply look at your post history, it just looks like an angry person ranting for the most part.
__________________
Shamwowi Wipesalot (60 SHM) | Bazgek Bonebreaker (60 SK) | Sznake Pliszken (52 MNK) | Laanfear (30 ENC)
Do you have questions about Shaman races? Read my guide: https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwow...man_Race_Guide Want to see Shaman videos? Check out my youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFU...zEFJVBIH3-jUog | |||
Last edited by DeathsSilkyMist; 06-29-2023 at 11:35 AM..
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