Want to Start a Rogue and Just want to Make Sure I Understand a Couple Things

[Duik]

YES!
I'VE.
BEEN.
ROASTED.
BY.
DSM.
LIFE.
GOAL.
ACHIEVED.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your argument is 43 STR is not needed, but 25 STR is needed. It's nonsense. If you thought OP needs strength, you wouldn't advise they roll gnome. You would tell them to roll barbarian.

I don't see anyone saying 25 STR is needed. I see people saying that any stat allocation will make little difference, that strength has an observably helpful impact while leveling, and that when rolling a rogue for the first time it's a perfectly fine choice.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't see anyone saying 25 STR is needed. I see people saying that any stat allocation will make little difference, that strength has an observably helpful impact while leveling, and that when rolling a rogue for the first time it's a perfectly fine choice.

No one did. It’s just DSMs pitiful attempt to “win”. Lol.

[CptnCanuck]

@OP, Gnome is a great choice for a Rogue. They get to wall hack and when fighting Giants you get to take out their achilles heel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] If I was to make a rogue down the road it would be between a Gnome and Halfling strictly for RP purposes.

As for starting stats, this can cause quite the debate as we can see. There is a lot of great information in the forums but at times I have found that it doesn't always pertain to my situation as I am not raider and have access to BiS gear and the best buffs all of the time.

My question to you would be are you going to be racing to 60 and raiding all the time or is it going to be a slow process to reach 60 and your goal is just to group and do dungeons? I can't comment on the first one as I don't really raid but If it is the later I would recommend putting your starting points in Str. That is where I think you would see the best gains for that style of play as it could take you a very long time before you are concerned about maxxing out str and focusing on other stats.

Currently I have been playing in a static 6 man group (War, Clr, Shm(me), Mag, Rog, Enc) ranging form lvl52 to 57 twice a week doing dungeons. Been having a blast but will still be a bit of time before we are all lvl60. Our Rogue in the group is a Gnome and is always looking for Str buffs, not really concerned about HP. In terms of playing not once has the Rogue's health ever come into play in terms of us wishing he had an extra 50-100 hp of health. Really the only time for us when we needed to focus some healing on the Rogue has been when a mob rampages but between myself and the cleric it is fine. The times when the rogue has died, an extra 100+ hp wouldn't have mattered as it was either a really bad pull, got trained or some crazy pathing issue and usually it is a wipe for the rogue and warrior and we are trying to gate out as many as we can so we can get a quicker reset.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No one did. It’s just DSMs pitiful attempt to “win”. Lol.

The strange thing is you keep thinking I am trying to "win". That's not my intention at all, that is simply what's in your mind.

I am pointing out the logical inconsistency with your idea that fashion is greater than stats, while you are also trying to claim STR is going to meaningfully impact OP's leveling experience.

You have yet to show how you think 25 STR will meaningfully impact OP's leveling experience, when you have admitted 43 STR will not meaningfully impact OP's leveling experience. This is why you say it is fine to pick Gnome over Barbarian.

I would love to see some data on how much DPS you think that 25 STR will give you, or data showing how having 150 STR instead of 175 STR is going to significantly increase OP's number of trips back to a merchant, or that the lack of 25 STR will cause issues with grouping.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your argument is 43 STR is not needed, but 25 STR is needed. It's nonsense. If you thought OP needs strength, you wouldn't advise they roll gnome. You would tell them to roll barbarian.

When you argue that fashion > stats, you are admitting starting stats aren't a big deal. OP could do just fine by dumping their starting stats into WIS.

You might as well put your points into the harder to cap stat, STA, since it doesn't matter too much anyway. You get a bonus throughout your toons life, including endgame, by putting your points into STA.

STR is easy to cap, it is the easiest stat to cap in the game. With 20k you can get enough STR and WR bags. Nobody is going to kick you from a group/raid because you have 150 STR instead of 175 STR. If that did occur, you would be telling people to roll barbarian.

Since your argument is essentially “cap sta quicker” then you would also tell them to roll barbarian. That’s not a factor, OP specified gnome. Stop bringing barbs into the equation in a failed attempt to be cunning and try to distort the logic.

How easy/hard a starting stat is to cap has nothing to do with the impact it actually has on a character throughout their lifetime. If you truly want to forego greater starting stat benefits on a GNOME(not barbarian) vs end game magelo stat maxing, then you should go CHA because it is harder to cap than STA in velious.

And I noticed you ignored my mention of CHA, so I will take it that you agree, CHA is harder to cap than STA, so just go with that if you really are into capping stats. It still provides a benefit to rogues from both a role play and loot/pickpocketing vendor pp potential.

[Duik]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The strange thing is you keep thinking I am trying to "win". That's not my intention at all, that is simply what's in your mind.

I am pointing out the logical inconsistency with your idea that fashion is greater than stats, while you are also trying to claim STR is going to meaningfully impact OP's leveling experience.

How's this for logic.
Fashion in this instance WILL gain more dps cuz OP clearly favours gnome, if convinced to roll barb for the str, will likely enjoy it less and subsequently play less therefore doing less dps.
Close the thread ffs.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The strange thing is you keep thinking I am trying to "win". That's not my intention at all, that is simply what's in your mind.

I am pointing out the logical inconsistency with your idea that fashion is greater than stats, while you are also trying to claim STR is going to meaningfully impact OP's leveling experience.

You have yet to show how you think 25 STR will meaningfully impact OP's leveling experience, when you have admitted 43 STR will not meaningfully impact OP's leveling experience. This is why you say it is fine to pick Gnome over Barbarian.

I would love to see some data on how much DPS you think that 25 STR will give you, or data showing how having 150 STR instead of 175 STR is going to significantly increase OP's number of trips back to a merchant, or that the lack of 25 STR will cause issues with grouping.

The fact of what having more DPS brings is way beyond the scope of this discussion and too complex to measure accurately. Different people will do different things with more DPS, it’s simply about increasing that in which the class was designed to do, which is DPS.

You’re arguing for STA solely because it’s a harder stat to cap. With that logic, one would go CHA. So thank you for agreeing.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Since your argument is essentially “cap sta quicker” then you would also tell them to roll barbarian. That’s not a factor, OP specified gnome. Stop bringing barbs into the equation in a failed attempt to be cunning and try to distort the logic.

How easy/hard a starting stat is to cap has nothing to do with the impact it actually has on a character throughout their lifetime. If you truly want to forego greater starting stat benefits on a GNOME(not barbarian) vs end game magelo stat maxing, then you should go CHA because it is harder to cap than STA in velious.

And I noticed you ignored my mention of CHA, so I will take it that you agree, CHA is harder to cap than STA, so just go with that if you really are into capping stats. It still provides a benefit to rogues from both a role play and loot/pickpocketing vendor pp potential.

I didn't ignore your CHA comment at all. I talked about CHA earlier in the thread. I didn't think it needed to be brought up again. CHA is indeed a contender for best starting stat if you are playing in a group or guild that DI's the Rogues often. I personally haven't seen that strategy being employed, which is why I typically don't suggest CHA. But if metas have changed, and Rogues get DI'ed, then go CHA!

I am not suggesting that OP pick Barbarian, because I understand it is easy to cap STR on any race, and STA can be capped eventually with BiS gear. However, STA is much harder to cap, even with BiS gear, so you will benefit from that choice for more play hours. The only person who is suggesting STR is a significant factor is yourself, which is why your logic doesn't make sense. By your logic OP should roll Barbarian, because you are claiming 25 STR is going to significantly impact OP's leveling process. By extension, 43 STR is going to be an even more significant impact. I disagree with this, which is why I am not arguing it. OP will level just fine without the 43 STR or the 25 STR.

During the leveling process you aren't going to notice 150 STR vs. 175 STR, and no group will kick you out because of it. When you are raiding, you are going to have 135-235 STR in buffs with Maniacal Strength + Focus of Spirit + Avatar. With just Focus of Spirit + Avatar, you are at 167 Strength from buffs. That means you only need 0-28 worth of worn STR on a Gnome to cap STR. It's really not difficult to do the math. With Epic you have 20/28 of that Strength already.

[Infectious]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not sure why you think this strategy works, or even helps your argument. You just look like an asshole, and you still aren't correct on any of your points[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When did looking like an incorrect asshole help someone's argument?

You spam every thread arguing with people and turning the threads into 20+ pages. It's safe to say, everybody knows your an asshole.