Game Mechanics: Double Invisibility

[Furme]

Invisibility should no longer stack with other forms.

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20060927.html

Happy now?

Invisibility stacked until 2006.

If you can find patch notes to say that this change happened earlier.. Be my guest.

[Treats]

Originally Posted by Furme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20060927.html

Happy now?

Invisibility stacked until 2006.

If you can find patch notes to say that this change happened earlier.. Be my guest.

.....

It definitely happened earlier, they DO NOT stack on EQMac.

This has got to be a troll or something?

[Furme]

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=8020

Separate source for patch notes maybe?

Perhaps EqMac isn't as classic as they seem?

Question.. Is it possible that eqmac has updated their server software to keep up with the updated clients, or can you still install say.. a pop era client and play without patching?

If you can't, it probably means that there have been selective updates to the server, and they have to deactivate the ones that they don't want.. Perhaps this non-classic function just so happened to slip through?

Similarly, Have you tried it with every form of invis on EQ Mac in every possible order?

Perhaps they stack in a different order because as I stated earlier.. Some invisibility spells had the check and others didn't?

If you want the programmer's logic behind this, I'll give it to you..
When a spell is cast it checks for a valid target and range.. It doesn't care about what effects they have currently etc.. (This is why you can cast a lower level spell that won't overwrite a higher level spell)

When the spell lands another check is made to check if the entity is a valid target(location in relation to yours, pc npc etc..) once that check is successful it fires another check for buffs on the entity to determine if it can stack (this is why you still lose mana when you cast a buff that fails).. That being said If the coder placed a check inside one spell, it could be possible that (s)he forgot to add the specific value into the spell to make it no longer stack..

[Treats]

Originally Posted by Furme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=8020

Separate source for patch notes maybe?

Perhaps EqMac isn't as classic as they seem?

Question.. Is it possible that eqmac has updated their server software to keep up with the updated clients, or can you still install say.. a pop era client and play without patching?

I could be wrong but I believe the first patch to that server to update any game mechanics was done a little while ago (I did the tests before this happened).

Originally Posted by Furme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you can't, it probably means that there have been selective updates to the server, and they have to deactivate the ones that they don't want.. Perhaps this non-classic function just so happened to slip through?

There have been 0 updates to that server in 10+ years.

Originally Posted by Furme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Similarly, Have you tried it with every form of invis on EQ Mac in every possible order?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Furme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Perhaps they stack in a different order because as I stated earlier.. Some invisibility spells had the check and others didn't?

If you want the programmer's logic behind this, I'll give it to you..
When a spell is cast it checks for a valid target and range.. It doesn't care about what effects they have currently etc.. (This is why you can cast a lower level spell that won't overwrite a higher level spell)

When the spell lands another check is made to check if the entity is a valid target(location in relation to yours, pc npc etc..) once that check is successful it fires another check for buffs on the entity to determine if it can stack (this is why you still lose mana when you cast a buff that fails).. That being said If the coder placed a check inside one spell, it could be possible that (s)he forgot to add the specific value into the spell to make it no longer stack..

All invisibility spells in the spdat have the effects listed in Atrib 1.

The only thing that I see that could possibly have made this happen was with Camouflage and Invis vs Animals.

Camo and Invis vs Animals are listed as a Neutral effect while others (Invis/Ivu/Superior Camo) are listed as Positive.

If they were meant to stack you would see Invisibility/Camo/etc in Attrib 1 and Invisibility to Undead in Atrrib 2.

[Nirgon]

Same thing with illusions pals. This stuff isn't meant to stack.

[cyryllis]

since when was eqmac a reliable source of 2000 era code?

[Nirgon]

Just let go.

You'll be happier with a more classic server in the long run.

Show me the patch notes where it said it was ever changed not to stack (we have a full list of all patch notes). Or maybe go petition Hobart?

Trust me on this one.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by Treats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

.....

It definitely happened earlier, they DO NOT stack on EQMac.

This has got to be a troll or something?

Things broke in the spell system revamp, which introduced bugs. This was past my time, but probably one of those things. Oh like that necro heal that is being adamantly defended.

I can't say one way or another on that but trust me on this easy one.

[Furme]

Originally Posted by Treats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I could be wrong but I believe the first patch to that server to update any game mechanics was done a little while ago (I did the tests before this happened).

http://www.eqmac.com/forums/viewtopi...=patch#p130696
2012
http://www.eqmac.com/forums/viewtopi...01&hilit=patch
2011
http://www.eqmac.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4466
2004
http://www.eqmac.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5192
2005 (specifically mentions spells, says "Some others" which is ambiguous)

Originally Posted by Treats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There have been 0 updates to that server in 10+ years.

See above links..

Originally Posted by Treats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All invisibility spells in the spdat have the effects listed in Atrib 1.

The only thing that I see that could possibly have made this happen was with Camouflage and Invis vs Animals.

Camo and Invis vs Animals are listed as a Neutral effect while others (Invis/Ivu/Superior Camo) are listed as Positive.

If they were meant to stack you would see Invisibility/Camo/etc in Attrib 1 and Invisibility to Undead in Atrrib 2.

/shrug

I'm not really well versed on how the client exactly parses spell data, it could be as you're saying, or it could be a combination of that and those unknown variables at the bottom of the spell data..

I mean, I've been searching for an hour and a half, and I can't find anything that says it definitively one way or another..

Like, I've seen several statements that say that it does stack and that if it didn't it was bugged / changed recently (around 2001 era).. and just one statement that says it doesn't and that verant patched it every time it was able to stack. (around 2002 era)

[Nirgon]

sp.dat is pretty hardcore evidence too.

I had someone ask me to look into VS and... looking into actual values and changes screwed me up royally.

sp.dat ended up winning the day and putting the current single notch in the "Nirgon's wrong!" column. My thanks for being set straight on that one btw.