JBB, is it really that good?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by zelld52 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not trying to "gotcha" you, bro. I want to understand what you mean.

I also never said that Torpor is exclusively for Cannibalize.

What I was saying, is that in my 2 years of experience as a level 60 shaman with Torpor: I don't see a good time to use JBB in a fight like this, unless I'm not tanking.

8s is more than 1 tick, and each tick is important in these fights. So if I had to choose between
using up 1.3 ticks on a JBB cast,
or a few Cannibalize,
or a re-slow,
or refreshing DoTs,
or casting a new Torpor
-- JBB would be the last thing on my list.

And from the fights I've had,... If I ever have downtime in my spell rotation, I Cannibalize. If I was too low HP to Cannibalize, wait a tick for Torpor to heal 300HP and then start Cannibalizing for the next Torpor.

And for levelling: JBB can break a root. Which is why I stopped using mine when I got epic at level 54. Much easier to root park 4 mobs and epic DoT them down simultaneously than it is to slow tank a mob and JBB spam. And no downtime with Root rotting, since you can Cannibalize and bandage while the mobs are rotting.

So, I agree with the consensus of most shaman who have reached 60 on p99, that JBB is basically a powerlevel from 45-52, but then it has diminishing returns the further you get into the 50s. So much so, that most shaman will sell their JBB after getting epic. (Or to help fund a Child's Tear MQ)

I appreciate that you are not trying to gotcha me.

I am saying there are times to use JBB in difficult fights, because you cannot always Cannibalize. The issue is you keep emphasizing that you prefer to Cannibalize during downtime. That is not always a good strategy on difficult fights where you can be damage spiked. When waiting for Torpor to tick you back up, you can use JBB. There are times where you need to heal more than 300 HP to get back to safe HP levels after getting damage spiked. You might as well JBB if you can't Cannibalize and all your DoTs/Debuffs are applied.

For leveling, you don't root/rot with JBB. You face tank with JBB. That is how you solve the root breaking problem when leveling with JBB. Obviously if you do happen to have Epic while leveling, root rotting 4+ mobs is going to be more efficient. However, not everybody has Epic while leveling, especially if they only have enough money for either Torpor or Epic, and not both.

Please stop claiming you can't use JBB to level quickly from 45-60. It worked really well for me. You have no evidence to suggest JBB falls off in the 50s, so I am not sure why you keep insisting. You simply stopped using it because you got Epic, and created this assumption. It's better to save for Torpor first, and get Epic if you can afford it. It is not a good idea to get Epic first to level, and then be broke at 60 and not have Torpor.

[zelld52]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is not a good idea to get Epic first to level, and then be broke at 60 and not have Torpor.

I can agree to disagree with you about the JBB effectiveness at 60. But, this is a take I just cannot stand for.

a) Epic doesn't have to cost money. When I was trying for epic, I would track the golems ToD and try to inspire my guild to raid fear if they were in window. This worked.

b) Epic is the fastest way to level past JBB effective level range. Pick a zone with melee mobs. Root rot 4 at a time with 0 downtime. Velks? Sure. Permafrost. Yeah! Howling Stones, you bet! If you like levelling more slowly, WL Geos? I guess.

c) I'd rather be 60 without Torpor and Epic than be 55 with enough money for Torpor and no epic. Grinding exp is the most monotonous, boring part of the game. Earning plat is fun. Make the boring part simple, and then figure out the fun part later. But I suppose that's just me.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by zelld52 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can agree to disagree with you about the JBB effectiveness at 60. But, this is a take I just cannot stand for.

a) Epic doesn't have to cost money. When I was trying for epic, I would track the golems ToD and try to inspire my guild to raid fear if they were in window. This worked.

b) Epic is the fastest way to level past JBB effective level range. Pick a zone with melee mobs. Root rot 4 at a time with 0 downtime. Velks? Sure. Permafrost. Yeah! Howling Stones, you bet! If you like levelling more slowly, WL Geos? I guess.

c) I'd rather be 60 without Torpor and Epic than be 55 with enough money for Torpor and no epic. Grinding exp is the most monotonous, boring part of the game. Earning plat is fun. Make the boring part simple, and then figure out the fun part later. But I suppose that's just me.

Not everybody gets Epic before 60. Assuming everybody will get Epic before 60 just because you did is silly.

You can level quickly with JBB in a number of great zones, including PoM Rat Maze. I did it just fine, so your idea that it's bad is wrong.

There is no reason why you can't give people advice for alternative leveling strategies. If you only have 60k in the bank, buy JBB and resell it for Torpor at 60. Having Torpor at 60 will allow you to farm faster than Epic at 60 with no Torpor. If you happen to be in a guild and get Epic while doing raiding on the side, great! You still have money for Torpor.

Earning plat with Torpor is more fun than grinding guards with Epic.

[Toxigen]

I'd rather have epic first. Most shaman have it well before 60.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd rather have epic first. Most shaman have it well before 60.

Most people would prefer to have Epic before 60. I leveled to 60 with JBB because Epic was too expensive for me to buy, and my guild was getting bad luck on Tear drops. Sometimes you need to compromise.

Having Epic at 60 doesn't allow you to kill anything new. If you level to 60 faster, and then you have to farm 40k by killing guards because you don't have Torpor, you didn't really save yourself any grinding.

If you have Torpor at 60 and no Epic, you can farm all sorts of camps like Fungi King to get the money needed to buy Epic.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not sure why you think 20 points of starting stats into STR is related to a mana free clickie nuke on a class that basically stops meleeing once they get JBB. Please stop trying to spout nonsense because you couldn't prove your point about starting stats in a different thread. I have video evidence of using JBB at 60. You have nonsensical commentary.

It’s related, and it’s quite simple why, let me make sure you understand this.

You claim your monk does just fine with 150 str, being content with your dps. Yet you sit here and say a shaman should still have jbb to mix in a few clicks at 60 when you can’t canni. So you obviously value incremental dps gains(a few jbb clicks here and there on an Ionat fight is extremely minimal), yet you seem to discredit the value of a 20 str dps increase.

So In one thread to say “to hell with small dps gains” and in another thread you say “yea you should take advantage of small dps gains”. You can’t keep your facts straight, so it’s important for me to defend the truth.

I hope you can see the hypocrisy in this, but if not, as long as others can I’m ok with that.

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It’s related, and it’s quite simple why, let me make sure you understand this.

You claim your monk does just fine with 150 str, being content with your dps. Yet you sit here and say a shaman should still have jbb to mix in a few clicks at 60 when you can’t canni. So you obviously value incremental dps gains(a few jbb clicks here and there on an Ionat fight is extremely minimal), yet you seem to discredit the value of a 20 str dps increase.

So In one thread to say “to hell with small dps gains” and in another thread you say “yea you should take advantage of small dps gains”. You can’t keep your facts straight, so it’s important for me to defend the truth.

I hope you can see the hypocrisy in this, but if not, as long as others can I’m ok with that.

+1

Crede droppin truth bombs, bigly.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It’s related, and it’s quite simple why, let me make sure you understand this.

You claim your monk does just fine with 150 str, being content with your dps. Yet you sit here and say a shaman should still have jbb to mix in a few clicks at 60 when you can’t canni. So you obviously value incremental dps gains(a few jbb clicks here and there on an Ionat fight is extremely minimal), yet you seem to discredit the value of a 20 str dps increase.

So In one thread to say “to hell with small dps gains” and in another thread you say “yea you should take advantage of small dps gains”. You can’t keep your facts straight, so it’s important for me to defend the truth.

I hope you can see the hypocrisy in this, but if not, as long as others can I’m ok with that.

It's clear you haven't been reading what I have been saying, and are ignoring all context in a poor attempt at a gotcha. You should stop trying to gotcha people, and start trying to read posts correctly. You aren't good at this whole gotcha thing, because you don't understand the argument in the first place.

If we are talking about a melee character during the leveling process, a 5% DPS boost from 20 STR in starting stats on a lower level character with 20 DPS is a 1 DPS increase. Even at lower levels, you are probably not gaining more kills per hour with that kind of an increase. Kills per hour is what matters when leveling.

If we are talking about a level 60 melee character, they are gaining 0 DPS from the 20 STR in starting stats due to being capped at 255 STR. It is very easy to hit 255 STR at level 60.

A Shaman who is leveling can get 20-30 DPS with JBB spam, which is a much larger bonus than 0-3 DPS. You are going to see more kills per hour with that. Trying to equate 0-3 DPS with 20-30 DPS is silly.

A level 60 Shaman is generally not aiming for more kills per hour, because a lot of tough mobs that you want to solo have a 30+ minute respawn timer anyway. If I kill Ionat in 18 minutes instead of 20 minutes, I still have to wait 8 hours for another respawn. There aren't enough soloable 6+ Dragons in the pit to net me more kills per hour by saving 2 minutes per kill. If I kill a 4+ Dragon in 10 minutes instead of 12 minutes, I would need to kill 30 4+ Dragons in a row without breaks to net an extra spawn since they have 1 hour respawn timers.

JBB allows you to kill the mob a bit faster, which equates to a lower risk of dying. A level 60 melee character is not killing mobs any faster at 275 STR compared to 255 STR. They are not decreasing their risk of dying at all.

It is trivial to rebut your nonsense. Please stop trying to confuse others simply because you are confused.

[Penish]

think the doctors call this psychosis, Silky

[Ripqozko]

Another DSM thread , here we go again