Player Agreement: Rule Change at the DS Camp

[berbax]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OP your proposal is still missing a "why". All you have in your "Argument for Rule Change" is a list with (essentially) one reason "I couldn't get DS, and a group of organized players could".

But that's a feature, not a bug. Solo people can't hold that camp down, because they can't keep the room clear. You need a group to clear the room and kill DS, so the system does have a list ... its just that you can't get on it simply by showing up (DS is not Scout) ... you have to "earn" the camp (ie. prove you're able to kill DS), by showing up early to it and holding it down until DS spawns.

Sorry but this is vastly wrong, I solo'd the room for 2 hours before doing my first DS kill with a little relief. Likewise Mcreary from GG can solo the entire camp. Lastly you actually cannot get the camp at all right now because Castle has the capability with different timezones to lock it down entirely (which is stated in my post) for 24 hours a day. Please read my post more carefully, also the video shows me doing the DS attempt (and the kill)

[berbax]

Originally Posted by FatMice [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wonder the real life analogy where the OP's logic applies.

Would you walk to the front line of a sneaker drop and expect dibs?

When there is a high demand for a commodity do you think it's fair to assume you deserve something and influence everyone else around you for your pleasure?

Oh here's one. When you get to the line at the grocery store and there aren't enough cashiers, so there you are you're at the end of the line waiting your turn; do you just grow so impatience you demand people move out of your way?

You must park your Prius across 4 parking spots.

Standard GG response.

Edit: I guess I'll elaborate

It's clear that your response is meant to be provocative rather than constructive. Let’s me fix each point you're suggesting:

Sneaker Drop Analogy: The comparison to a sneaker drop isn't accurate. The suggestion isn't about jumping the line, but about implementing a system that allows fair access for everyone, similar to how a lottery or raffle system works for high-demand items.

High-Demand Commodities: The current system forces players to camp 24 hours a day to obtain an item, which is neither fair nor healthy. My proposal aims to ensure everyone has a reasonable chance, much like how roll systems have already been successfully implemented for other high-demand camps.

Grocery Store Analogy: Again, this analogy misses the mark. The suggestion is not about pushing others aside but about creating a structured, orderly system that prevents monopolization by a few and distributes opportunities more equitably.

Personal Insults: Resorting to personal insults, such as the Prius comment, clearly rude. The focus should be on the merits of the proposed change, not on attacking those who suggest them.

The goal is to foster a healthier and more equitable environment for all players. P99 has already adapted and implemented similar changes in the past, demonstrating that the community values fair access and reduced toxicity. This proposal follows that same principle.

[magicfest2]

Couple pieces of context:
1) It was not “GG” during the times OP marked as GG. It was at least two distinct groups of players including one group that is not exclusively GG members. We tried to explain this because OP continually treated us like the same group but we are not, in fact we’re in competition with each other. This was apparently totally beyond comprehension. I believe we also had another person do a solo challenge for the camp during this time from GG that was not acting as either group, so lumping GG together in the same way as some other guilds where it’s an official guild activity is not correct.
2) At least the group I’m in does not typically do much contesting for the camp unless one group of players has been monopolizing it for too long (we just stepped away for a while when Castle started doing it, and only recently have started contesting again), or someone has been acting poorly towards us first. In this case, OP was incredibly belligerent the entire time we saw him, contested us nonstop for days, and called in backup to help with his “solo artist” challenge. If OP weren’t one of the most abrasive people I’ve ever met at the camp, I think it is likely their experience would have been totally different.

So… that said, I’d be happy to see better rules and see them more consistently enforced, but IMO this post better belongs in R&F. The list system is better? Really? Lists are the most unhealthy and toxic system in the game, if anything that would make it even worse. Someone else suggested camping in the room if challenged and IMO that would be at least a slight improvement… Better clarity about challenges would also be good, because one person flopped afk is the current meta for it and there isn’t really a good way to prove a valid challenge. We’ve been challenged by a semi-afk 52 cleric too and have to clear carefully because otherwise some monks will appear out of nowhere and take over.

OP did you ever actually do it completely solo or did you end up counting the time your friends in Kingdom cleared everything for you and watched you do DS at the end?

[servirus06]

Originally Posted by berbax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hello Community,

I am Berbax, a dedicated solo artist player, and I am writing to propose a rule change for the DS camp based on my experiences and gathered evidence. I initially tried to run this by the Project1999 staff, but they preferred a player agreement over instituting the change themselves. So here I'm going to outline the details of what should ideally be done with this camp.

Background and Current Issues:

In August 2023, I attempted to camp DS to achieve the solo artist accomplishment. Despite my best efforts over two weeks, securing the camp became nearly impossible, exacerbated by my own guild's refusal to let me try after they claimed it. After a break, I returned in June this year, only to face similar challenges. It took another two weeks of continuous monitoring to get a single chance at the camp, during which I was subjected to constant pressure and harassment from the "Good Guys" guild.

Video Evidence:
For a detailed account of my journey, please refer to this video: Journey to DS Camp.

Current Camp Monopolization:

Since my return, I have meticulously logged camp ownership. As of today, Castle has monopolized the DS camp 24/7 since July 5, 2024—over 30 days straight. Here are my logs:

06-12-2024 - Good Guys
06-13-2024 - Good Guys
06-14-2024 - Good Guys
06-15-2024 - Good Guys
06-16-2024 - Good Guys
06-17-2024 - Good Guys (I had the camp, GG pressured me to full clear, and I had to cap out)
06-18-2024 - Good Guys
06-19-2024 - Good Guys
06-20-2024 - Kingdom thanks to GG wiping 3 times
06-21-2024 - Good Guys
06-22-2024 - Safe Space
06-23-2024 - Good Guys
06-24-2024 - Good Guys
06-25-2024 - Good Guys
06-26-2024 - Good Guys
06-27-2024 - Good Guys
06-28-2024 - The Drift!
06-29-2024 - Good Guys
06-30-2024 - Lineage (24 hour camp)
07-01-2024 - Lineage (24 hour camp)
07-02-2024 - Lineage (24 hour camp)
07-03-2024 - Lineage (24 hour camp)
07-03-2024 - Good Guys
07-04-2024 - Kingdom (held it since the morning like 930am CST 12 hours early)
07-05-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
07-06-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
07-07-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
07-08-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
07-09-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
07-10-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
07-11-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
07-12-2024 - Good Guys
07-13-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
07-14-2024 - Good Guys
07-15-2024 - Good Guys
07-16-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
07-17-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
07-18-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
07-19-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
07-20-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
07-21-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
07-22-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
07-23-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
07-24-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
07-25-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
07-26-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
07-27-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
07-28-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
07-29-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
07-30-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
07-31-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
08-01-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
08-02-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
08-03-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
08-04-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
08-05-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)
08-06-2024 - Castle (24 hour camp?)

Argument for Rule Change:

1. Player Health: The current situation promotes unhealthy gaming habits, with players camping DS non-stop.

1. Toxicity: The high competition and harassment, as exemplified by my experiences with "Good Guys," foster a toxic environment.

1. Fair Access: The DS camp’s urn is valuable for all classes, similar to other high-demand items like Journeyman Boots. Current rules allow high-end guilds to monopolize the camp, excluding others.

1. Economic Impact: The urn sells for approximately 250k on the green server, and monopolization by a few guilds may drive real-money trading (RMT) influences.

1. Balancing Gameplay: DS camp difficulty is now trivial, making a list/line/roll system more reasonable and beneficial for a fair distribution of opportunities.

Proposed Change:

I advocate for implementing a list/line system for the DS camp or a roll, similar to other contentious spots like Angry and Scout. This will ensure healthier gameplay, reduce toxicity, and provide fair access to all players.

Thank you for considering this proposal. I am hopeful for a positive change that benefits the entire Project1999 community.

- Berbax

Berbax, sadly all u have proposed has been thought in blue the biggest problem is DS is not a 100% drop rate, Brool can help establish Urn group in Green if u wanna try to compete and get options, solo endeavors are the 1% of what's seen in DS camp, i understand u wanna do the solo thing, but if you wanna work for quest completion having friends help goes a long way. i had no way of getting urns on my toons till Urn group was founded and ive been in it pretty early, so i can tell you its worth, and you can meet a bunch of new people which guild tags would exclude other wise, since its a system for all [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
hope this bit of info helps - Servirus06

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OP your proposal is still missing a "why". All you have in your "Argument for Rule Change" is a list with (essentially) one reason "I couldn't get DS, and a group of organized players could".

But that's a feature, not a bug. Solo people can't hold that camp down, because they can't keep the room clear. You need a group to clear the room and kill DS, so the system does have a list ... its just that you can't get on it simply by showing up (DS is not Scout) ... you have to "earn" the camp (ie. prove you're able to kill DS), by showing up early to it and holding it down until DS spawns.

I hate being forced into player interactions on an mmo. It ruins the entire point of it!

[berbax]

Originally Posted by magicfest2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Couple pieces of context:

It was not “GG” during the times OP marked as GG. It was at least two distinct groups of players including one group that is not exclusively GG members. We tried to explain this because OP continually treated us like the same group but we are not, in fact we’re in competition with each other. This was apparently totally beyond comprehension. I believe we also had another person do a solo challenge for the camp during this time from GG that was not acting as either group, so lumping GG together in the same way as some other guilds where it’s an official guild activity is not correct.
At least the group I’m in does not typically do much contesting for the camp unless one group of players has been monopolizing it for too long (we just stepped away for a while when Castle started doing it, and only recently have started contesting again), or someone has been acting poorly towards us first. In this case, OP was incredibly belligerent the entire time we saw him, contested us nonstop for days, and called in backup to help with his “solo artist” challenge. If OP weren’t one of the most abrasive people I’ve ever met at the camp, I think it is likely their experience would have been totally different.
So… that said, I’d be happy to see better rules and see them more consistently enforced, but IMO this post better belongs in R&F. The list system is better? Really? Lists are the most unhealthy and toxic system in the game, if anything that would make it even worse. Someone else suggested camping in the room if challenged and IMO that would be at least a slight improvement… Better clarity about challenges would also be good, because one person flopped afk is the current meta for it and there isn’t really a good way to prove a valid challenge. We’ve been challenged by a semi-afk 52 cleric too and have to clear carefully because otherwise some monks will appear out of nowhere and take over.

OP did you ever actually do it completely solo or did you end up counting the time your friends in Kingdom cleared everything for you and watched you do DS at the end?

I appreciate the context you’ve provided, but I'm going to correct it.

First, I was not belligerent during my attempts at the DS camp. My interactions with your group were straightforward requests to clear the camp, which were met with hostility, including being called "scum" when you lost the camp. Some of my chat even appears in the video provided, I doubt any of it you'd find "abrasive". Personally I can't get behind the "we are in GG, but we are not GG" scenario between your 3 factions: The Syndicate, Big Urn, and Little Sinew. Just because you have internal competition with each other, doesn't mean the GG doesn't benefit from each of you obtaining the camp/urn and/or money from it.

Regarding the solo artist attempt, I did clear the camp solo for two hours, including Mort Prot. Eventually, The Drift assisted, and we cleared the camp together. I killed DS solo with the room cleared. While it may not meet your definition of a solo artist attempt, it's important to note that fully clearing the DS room solo is practically impossible in the current state of the game. I have additional videos demonstrating my solo efforts if you’re interested.

The goal here is to address the monopolization of the camp and ensure fair access for all players. I see you're willing to change the camp rules, I'm open to suggestions on top of my own.

[Allishia]

What ya need to do, is like we did in blue. There was a farm group that wouldn't let anyone in and kept ds on lock. They were so greedy, they wouldn't even let their own guildys in it.

Sooo people got together and made a discord to compete for it. It's called URN. They implemented a dkp system and work together spreading urns around to those who put in time.

They also allow anyone to join so it's fair /nod

Worked out great on blue, the greedy farm group people lost and anyone who wants an urn is free to start urning dkp and join the URN /nod

[berbax]

Originally Posted by servirus06 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Berbax, sadly all u have proposed has been thought in blue the biggest problem is DS is not a 100% drop rate, Brool can help establish Urn group in Green if u wanna try to compete and get options, solo endeavors are the 1% of what's seen in DS camp, i understand u wanna do the solo thing, but if you wanna work for quest completion having friends help goes a long way. i had no way of getting urns on my toons till Urn group was founded and ive been in it pretty early, so i can tell you its worth, and you can meet a bunch of new people which guild tags would exclude other wise, since its a system for all [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
hope this bit of info helps - Servirus06

Understood, thanks for your input! I did finish the solo artist attempt though, so that was nice. This post was mostly for the good of the server, and the health of the people on camping it.

[berbax]

Originally Posted by Allishia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What ya need to do, is like we did in blue. There was a farm group that wouldn't let anyone in and kept ds on lock. They were so greedy, they wouldn't even let their own guildys in it.

Sooo people got together and made a discord to compete for it. It's called URN. They implemented a dkp system and work together spreading urns around to those who put in time.

They also allow anyone to join so it's fair /nod

Worked out great on blue, the greedy farm group people lost and anyone who wants an urn is free to start urning dkp and join the URN /nod

That sounds great actually, Kingdom has something similar which I can respect

[Mewlio]

The only things that would improve this camp:

1. Actual enforcement of rules by CSR
2. CSR Prescribing a black and white ruleset for ownership of the camp and contestation
3. Clear requests may only be completed by those in game at the camp at the time the request was made
4. Clear requestor(s) at the camp at the time of request are the only ones permitted to perform the first clear in the event of the original holder's failure to clear.
5. Once the room is broken, the camp must be held from inside drusella's room and kept clear to hold the camp (the hall may only be used to break the camp).
6. Charm pets must be killed each cycle if it belongs from one of the spawns at the camp.