Solo Barbarian Shaman Stat Allocation

[Siberious]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"best starting stats for a barb shaman" ... to do what?

Did you just completely skip over Danth's post? And as for the rest, I never said Loramin had perfect gear; I said he was fairly representative (if not a bit on the high side) of a non-raid 60 shaman ... and he is. So I don't get the long tirade on what I could do with my gear.

I don't need to address Danth, we're pretty much on the same page. Our reasons for why we agree on the 105wis 105 sta starting stats are very similar (better split for gear selections, I'm taking it a step further and showing how doing more +Wis at char creation let's you use more bulky +sta/HP combos on gear later, something you also keep noting, hps > Mana. While also not hamstringing yourself to be low wisdom later). So again, I don't understand that response from you. Please re-read our reasons why.

I didn't go on a tirade. I gave clear examples of suboptimal gear choices that you made that you're referencing for why you think +sta is better than +Wis at char creation. I also gave solutions that help fix the +sta to 205 unbuffed issue by illustrating how it's much easier to get +sta+HP in bulk on non-raid gear than +wis+HP. This was all helpful information for the OP, nothing about it was a triade.

You've listed no concrete examples of why +25 sta +5 wis is superior to +25 Wis and +5 sta other than referencing your own toon who has too many suboptimal gear choices to be a good reference, and saying HP > Mana so +sta is better (which isn't true if you can get to 205 without putting 20 extra starting stats in it). You'll never cap wisdom self buffed on a non-high end raid geared shaman by contrast, unless you're sacrificing a lot of hps.

In the end this is all min/max and you may not notice it in every day play. But for sake of fleshing out the best possible stat allocation in this case, +25 wis +5 sta will win out. You can prioritize sta/hps on gear and get extra mana from the extra starting wisdom on top of it.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Siberious [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't need to address Danth, we're pretty much on the same page.

No, you're clearly not. Danth's entire point was that not all Shaman are the same.

Some solo tough mobs repeatedly to farm loot. Some solo really tough mobs for the thrill of doing it. Some solo boring stuff (eg. they farm Droga). Some group. And some even raid.

And even between those there are differences: we've already noted that soloing Sebilite Protectors is (or at least might be) noticeably different from soloing Sebilis Crypt or A4.

But you said:

Originally Posted by Siberious [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm talking about best starting stats for a barb shaman.

... as if there was one "best answer for all Barbarian Shaman".

There is no "one best for everyone": you can be arguing apples are best, and I'm arguing oranges are, and neither of us are wrong because we're talking about different fruit.

So again: best for who?

Originally Posted by Siberious [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You've listed no concrete examples of why +25 sta +5 wis is superior to +25 Wis and +5 sta ...

Actually, I've said repeatedly that Stamina/HP keeps you alive, Wisdom/mana doesn't, and in all the fights I listed the hard part is surviving long enough to land a slow. None of that has anything to do with my toon, who was simply an example.

So IF we're talking about a Shaman who plans to kill WW Dragons, or farm thrones in PoM, or farm Crypt in Seb late at night (when no groups are there), or do any similar fight, more HP is best for them.

But if you truly think you can hit max Stamina AND still have all the other things a Shaman would want (including lots of +HP, clickies, regen, ...) AND you can do it without high-end raid gear ... just make a Magelo and show it.

[Siberious]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, you're clearly not. Danth's entire point was that not all Shaman are the same.

Some solo tough mobs repeatedly to farm loot. Some solo really tough mobs for the thrill of doing it. Some solo boring stuff (eg. they farm Droga). Some group. And some even raid.

But you said:



... as if there was one best answer for all Shaman ... completely ignoring everything Danth wrote.

I can't help you then. You keep changing the conversation and ignoring 95% of what I say. You went from saying HPs > Mana so +sta is clearly better, when I refuted that you said, well HPs isn't all you want with gear, when I refuted that you kept spamming over and over nonsense about how I'm ignoring Danth, etc (spoiler, I'm not).

I'll keep it very simple for you. I'd maintain regardless of what you want to do with your barb shaman 105 sta 105 wis base is best for flexibility should you change your mind later. Want to go big Wis/Mana? Great, you're ready for it. What to go big sta/hps? Great you're ready for it. This way gear is there to get you to either goal either way.

Your main claim was HP HP HP. Now you're shifting Convo to "Danth said this and you're ignoring it!". And now mid response you've edited your post to "Well there isn't 1 size fits all approach". It's almost like you are constantly changing your view to dodge answering any of the actual points I'm discussing. Makes it impossible to have a conversation with you. My view is consistent, hope the OP found it useful. ✌️

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Siberious [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can't help you then. You keep changing the conversation and ignoring 95% of what I say. You went from saying HPs > Mana so +sta is clearly better, when I refuted that you said, well HPs isn't all you want with gear, when I refuted that you kept spamming over and over nonsense about how I'm ignoring Danth, etc (spoiler, I'm not).

I'll keep it very simple for you. I'd maintain regardless of what you want to do with your barb shaman 105 sta 105 wis base is best for flexibility should you change your mind later. Want to go big Wis/Mana? Great, you're ready for it. What to go big sta/hps? Great you're ready for it. This way gear is there to get you to either goal either way.

Your main claim was HP HP HP. Now you're shifting Convo to "Danth said this and you're ignoring it!". And now mid response you've edited your post to "Well there isn't 1 size fits all approach". It's almost like you are constantly changing your view to dodge answering any of the actual points I'm discussing. Makes it impossible to have a conversation with you. My view is consistent, hope the OP found it useful. ✌️

So your entire argument amounts to "pick Wisdom, it's flexible" ... and it will let you do ___________? What? What can you do with more Wisdom that you can't do with more HP?

And also, acknowledging that there wasn't one right answer for everyone (while still maintaining "for the fights I'm talking about, HP is best", the same as I have previously) is not inconsistent in any way.

[ArbiterBlixen]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So your entire argument amounts to "pick Wisdom, it's flexible" ... and it will let you do ___________? What? What can you do with more Wisdom that you can't do with more HP?

And also, acknowledging that there wasn't one right answer for everyone (while still maintaining "for the fights I'm talking about, HP is best", the same as I have previously) is not inconsistent in any way.

I already laid it out for you. Swapping a single item in your kit, plus starting stats and you come out waaay ahead.

Originally Posted by ArbiterBlixen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As an example, you use:

Runed Coldain Prayer Shawl, which yields 84 mana and 21hp

A random ec item like,

Chokidai Hide Pauldrons would yield 100hp

As you can see, even if you view mana and hp equally, Rune Coldain Prayer Shawl provides 105 points of stats. Greater than the pauldrons of just 100 points.

But with our starting stat allocation of 25sta vs 25wis the distribution looks like this:

Runed Coldain Prayer Shawl: 84mana and 96hp (chose sta)
Chokidai Hide Pauldrons: 300mana and 100hp (chose wis)

I know you said other stats matter too (Resists) and i agree, but the versatility extends to whatever stats you want. It’s just value that you can’t duplicate with a stamina selection.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Go WIS for your starting stat.

STA is generally easier to cap with Velious era gear.

You get 1-2 STA buffs (Riotous Health and Hammer of the Dragonborn clickie). You can buff WIS by 10 points with bear illusion, but that's it.

At level 60 you get 3HP per STA, so the starting stats only shake out to an extra 75 HP, assuming you aren't capped. 25 WIS is going to be 150-250ish mana depending on if you are over 200 WIS. 2HP = 1 mana in terms of cannibalize, so having that extra mana means you are saving more HP during an encounter due to potentially using less cannibalizes before you run out of mana. 150 mana = 300hp not cannibalized.

Again, STA is generally easier to cap than WIS, so you will be under 255 WIS more often. My Shaman with raid gear only has 200ish WIS. This is because good Shaman gear is typically more tanky, and doesn't have caster stats, such as Fungi Tunic.

Finally, if 75HP was the difference between life and death in an encounter, the problem wasn't your starting stats.

[ArbiterBlixen]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Go WIS for your starting stat.

STA is generally easier to cap with Velious era gear.

You get 1-2 STA buffs (Riotous Health and Hammer of the Dragonborn clickie). You can buff WIS by 10 points with bear illusion, but that's it.

At level 60 you get 3HP per STA, so the starting stats only shake out to an extra 75 HP, assuming you aren't capped. 25 WIS is going to be 150-250ish mana depending on if you are over 200 WIS. 2HP = 1 mana in terms of cannibalize, so having that extra mana means you are saving more HP during an encounter due to potentially using less cannibalizes before you run out of mana. 150 mana = 300hp not cannibalized.

Again, STA is generally easier to cap than WIS, so you will be under 255 WIS more often. My Shaman with raid gear only has 200ish WIS. This is because good Shaman gear is typically more tanky, and doesn't have caster stats, such as Fungi Tunic.

Finally, if 75HP was the difference between life and death in an encounter, the problem wasn't your starting stats.

You’re 200ish wis in balanced raid gear. If OP has balanced non raid gear, he should be well under 200 wis. Most of the 25Wis will be 12mana per.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by ArbiterBlixen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You’re 200ish wis in balanced raid gear. If OP has balanced non raid gear, he should be well under 200 wis. Most of the 25Wis will be 12mana per.

Yup, and I am capped on STA, so WIS is the only stat I can increase now. Having that extra 25 STA wouldn't help me at all.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Go WIS for your starting stat.

STA is generally easier to cap with Velious era gear.

You get 1-2 STA buffs (Riotous Health and Hammer of the Dragonborn clickie).

Do you even read the conversation before participating? This is a discussion of non-high-end raiding Shaman ... and you use an item from VP?

Everyone wants to argue with me, but no one wants to talk about what a non-guild (or at least non-top-end-guild) Shaman actually does with their time, and why more HP or more Mana would help them do it better.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you even read the conversation before participating? This is a discussion of non-high-end raiding Shaman ... and you use an item from VP?

I did read the conversation, you are just being stubborn and wrong[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Starting stats only really matter endgame due to stat scaling. 25 STA basically gives you nothing for the first 30 levels or so. The WIS is still going to give you more benefit even at lower levels. If 30HP was the difference between life and death at level 30ish, the problem wasn't your starting stats. More mana = less canni = more HP saved, even at lower levels. And pre-canni you are basically getting no HP from STA.