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  #11  
Old 05-21-2024, 06:58 PM
Duik Duik is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulgasari [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Who pays for the union and what it produces?
Workers at the workface.

A quick calc yields $676 minus tax return ≈ $600.

8% of wage increase minus the current likely 3.5% offer is 1.8 times as much. Easily covers the 600 plus the idea and strength behind a union is the threat of strike not the actual strike action itself.
EBA negotiations be like
CEO has a number of dollars set aside for

- production

- shutdowns there is a number of weeks that each concern can go without production. If our members can outlast this number. We good.
Now the non unionised 50% of a workforce can struggle through foiling any strikes (that we dont want.)

- uva stuff.

Now, if 50 workers all team up and have in their corner who, for all intents and purposes is a employment rules lawyer. With carefully set out and costed value based on what we offer/what you get back, firsthand knowledge of other similar workplaces for comparison/leverage.

The object is to not strike (nobody makes bank) but to force a situation where the company knows if we do, they are fucked. You do this by making sure 100% of the workforce is made aware of this. By showing them this exact type of message.

Wage - union fees + 8% > Wage + 3.5%.

Also when you ask questions about safety or uniform or PPE you get an answer based on 100% of your workmates standing with you. It makes many things easier down the line.

EDIT
Thankyou for giving me another idea.
Another thread mentions how stupid people are/can be.
So i was getting all technical and numbery on my previous attempts at convincing the fence sitters at work. Ill make it as simple as i did above.
People hate math and long convoluted explainations.
We love zinging catch phrases.
Last edited by Duik; 05-21-2024 at 07:03 PM..
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  #12  
Old 05-21-2024, 11:04 PM
Pulgasari Pulgasari is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Workers at the workface.

A quick calc yields $676 minus tax return ≈ $600.

8% of wage increase minus the current likely 3.5% offer is 1.8 times as much. Easily covers the 600 plus the idea and strength behind a union is the threat of strike not the actual strike action itself.
EBA negotiations be like
CEO has a number of dollars set aside for

- production

- shutdowns there is a number of weeks that each concern can go without production. If our members can outlast this number. We good.
Now the non unionised 50% of a workforce can struggle through foiling any strikes (that we dont want.)

- uva stuff.

Now, if 50 workers all team up and have in their corner who, for all intents and purposes is a employment rules lawyer. With carefully set out and costed value based on what we offer/what you get back, firsthand knowledge of other similar workplaces for comparison/leverage.

The object is to not strike (nobody makes bank) but to force a situation where the company knows if we do, they are fucked. You do this by making sure 100% of the workforce is made aware of this. By showing them this exact type of message.

Wage - union fees + 8% > Wage + 3.5%.

Also when you ask questions about safety or uniform or PPE you get an answer based on 100% of your workmates standing with you. It makes many things easier down the line.

EDIT
Thankyou for giving me another idea.
Another thread mentions how stupid people are/can be.
So i was getting all technical and numbery on my previous attempts at convincing the fence sitters at work. Ill make it as simple as i did above.
People hate math and long convoluted explainations.
We love zinging catch phrases.
No, I get that it's lucrative and any rational worker would choose to get more money for themself if they could - but where does the more money come from?

Also, I understand there is some probationary period before you become a "made man"? How long was yours, capo minete?
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  #13  
Old 05-21-2024, 11:38 PM
Trexller Trexller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulgasari [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
but where does the more money come from?
stakeholders. and they aren't giving up one red cent.

no corporation exists to serve it's customers or employees

every. single. public. corporation. exists solely to make a very small group of people very rich
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  #14  
Old 05-22-2024, 12:12 AM
Duik Duik is offline
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Ok from the first payment i was like i am now.

Aww, were you wanting some whimsically cliche story about an Italian heirachical group of standover men?
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  #15  
Old 05-22-2024, 12:39 AM
Pulgasari Pulgasari is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trexller [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
stakeholders. and they aren't giving up one red cent.

no corporation exists to serve it's customers or employees

every. single. public. corporation. exists solely to make a very small group of people very rich
We're talking about public sector unions. Who pays for their labor?
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  #16  
Old 05-22-2024, 02:31 AM
Duik Duik is offline
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Correct trex but comining into a negotiation with some knowledge and ammo helps with my outcome.
Im never driving a lambo or a ferrari and im ok with that.

In these negotiations I know we pick from the bottom of the tree but im ok with that too.
Ive seen what you can become when you suckle from the corporate breast. So im happy with my work/life balance.

Arguing with ceos about my pay does little if its just me.
In an industrial dispute..
Corps know how long they can last.
Members know how long they can last.

Neither side wishes to lose money.
The corp will decide if they can continue production with staff left over. We then ask for our %.

If Union% outweighs CEO production number we have a chance to "win".

As to where the extra money comes from. The company just spent 18M - 20M (funny story. Many of the parts are USA made and cause of timing and exchange rate 3M was said to been added) so i feel they know it is worth at least a few years of hearty production and if they want a timely and uninterrupted production schedule sitting down is in all of our interests. You can whack a smilie there if you like.
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  #17  
Old 05-22-2024, 02:32 PM
Trexller Trexller is offline
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If i ever feel like i need to unionize to get fair treatment I just go get another job. I apply for jobs and then go crush interviews just to keep my skills sharp, then come up with a good reason to decline the job offer.

good economy or bad economy, anyone who can't find a job is experiencing a problem with themselves and not the labor market

they got you all living under this illusion that they are the gatekeepers to financial security, they say you are replaceable, workers must understand that their employers are equally replaceable, and that your employer will incur a much higher cost in replacing you, then you will spend trying to replace them.

I wouldn't vote for a union, I would vote with my feet

Resignation letter be like:
Quote:
"No, Im not asking you for more money/benefits, Im not asking you for better working conditions, you know that you have been able to improve these things and you did not do it"
Anyone wanna guess how many times I've gotten a phone call asking, "how we might correct this misunderstanding?"

I dunno how to do spoilers on the forum. It's 2 times + a boss drove to my house and knocked on my door
Last edited by Trexller; 05-22-2024 at 02:37 PM..
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  #18  
Old 05-22-2024, 03:40 PM
Duik Duik is offline
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Im pleased that works for you trex.
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  #19  
Old 05-30-2024, 10:51 PM
magnetaress magnetaress is offline
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Found a cool documentary about factories on prime.
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  #20  
Old 05-30-2024, 11:31 PM
Jimjam Jimjam is online now
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Found a cool documentary about the development of the longbow on youtube. Presented by Ray Mears who I find very marmite.
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