Sleeper being awoken tonight (April 13th)

[Coridan]

Originally Posted by Tethler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lulz with the 10 month old thread necro, lol

Holy shit it really was 10 months ago.

[TheIrateTurk]

CONGRATULATIONS! UPON REACHING THE 58TH PAGE I HAVE BEEN AWOKEN! You guys now get to hear my 2¢.

First let's get this out of the way. If a guy is too withdrawn to say the word "dick" or "shit" then he has bigger problems than Everquest.

I have no issue with people waking the sleeper. It's inevitable. Stop being salty. If they delayed it by a year would you somehow have completed the content it deletes? If the answer is yes, then it's your own fault for not organising yourself and doing it sooner. If the answer is no, then who cares, you are not impacted, nor would you ever be impacted on any relevant timeline. Stop being envious of people who were more competent than you. Take a step back and applaud them for their achievement.

Comparing Manastone to this situation is silly. You don't need to make this argument to be a proponent/ indifferent to Sleeper being awakened. It's like being innocent of a crime yet still going to prison because you have a bad lawyer.

The p99 devs want to emulate the classic experience as closely as possible. In classic what happened is they had the manastone, realised it was OP and stopped it dropping without removing the item. This means some people who were fortunate or forward thinking were able to have an item that was very powerful and exclusive. The p99 devs have recreated this situation quite well - there are indeed some people on Green who have the manastone and can be revered/ envied /whatever. I do not have a manastone. Part of my reptilian lizard brain feels like I missed out a bit that I do not have a manastone. This is a good thing. This is what Everquest is all about. Manastone was already not in the game by the time I started playing. I am not going to whine about it.

"THE DEVS CHOSE TO REMOVE MANASTONE, SO IF YOU BELIEVE ONLY A JERK WOULD WAKE THE SLEEPER, THEN YOU ARE INCONSISTENT IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE THE DEVS ARE JERKS FOR REMOVING THE MANASTONE" is really not a good argument at all. They are not equivalent. You can worship the devs and kiss their feet no matter their stance on manastone while thinking Seal Team are jerks and be entirely consistent. I would argue that you are wrong but at least you would not be a hypocrite and we could have a conversation.

The devs are not the playerbase and cannot be treated as such. If a rapist kills your mother you can call the rapist a jerk. If she dies in a hurricane you can be upset and mad that she's dead, but it's not really productive to call the hurricane a jerk. The outcome is the same - your poor mother is no longer with us. But two different mechanisms have achieved this outcome and you'd be a fool for believing they were identical.

[Ooloo]

Dead Hurricane Moms <-- calling as a guild name

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by TheIrateTurk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The devs are not the playerbase and cannot be treated as such. If a rapist kills your mother you can call the rapist a jerk. If she dies in a hurricane you can be upset and mad that she's dead, but it's not really productive to call the hurricane a jerk. The outcome is the same - your poor mother is no longer with us. But two different mechanisms have achieved this outcome and you'd be a fool for believing they were identical.

This is a bad comparison. Nobody on earth has control over a Hurricane. P99, on the other hand, is built by humans, managed by humans, and designed to manipulate humans to play in a specific manner.

The only difference between Sleeper and Manastone is the dev's allowed Sleeper to be awoken by a player rather than a timer. Due to the high probability of Sleeper being awoken, there is technically no difference between a randomized timer and a player triggered event.

I am not sure why this logic is difficult.

[TheIrateTurk]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a bad comparison. Nobody on earth has control over a Hurricane. P99, on the other hand, is built by humans, managed by humans, and designed to manipulate humans to play in a specific manner.

The only difference between Sleeper and Manastone is the dev's allowed Sleeper to be awoken by a player rather than a timer. Due to the high probability of Sleeper being awoken, there is technically no difference between a randomized timer and a player triggered event.

I am not sure why this logic is difficult.

We essentially have no control over the humans that are in charge of p99. As far as us plebs are concerned, the devs are completely outside of the game. Force majeure. They are for all intents and purposes god. We are completely at their whim. The devs have a different motivation for their actions. Their goal is to recreate Classic Everquest and as far as my noob ass can tell they have tried to do this quite faithfully. They haven't added a minimap or quality of life changes. Maybe they have recreated elements of the game they personally disagree with, but have done so in order to replicate the game as it was.

It's like you getting angry with George RR Martin because he killed your favourite character. Completely pointless.

Look I am open to you being right about whether or not they have deviated from the original game as it was, but it clearly feels wrong to compare the devs removing manastone with a subset of the playerbase clearing content a consequence of which is it removes some content.

This is also why I have no problem with either action - we are aware before time that these are the conditions of the game we are playing with. If we object that much, we can spend our time doing something else.

If a gunman is about to shoot at me, and I duck, and the bullet hits a person behind me, this would be viewed to as very differently as if I had grabbed the person behind me and threw them in the path of the bullet. Same result but different judgement on my behaviour.

I don't think you can compare the devs and manastone to the playerbase. Maybe I am not articulate enough to argue it more clearly.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by TheIrateTurk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's like you getting angry with George RR Martin because he killed your favourite character. Completely pointless.

I think I may be assuming people know about game theory, which is my bad.

Video games have mechanics that apply game theory to steer players in the directions the developers want.

Sleeper is using game theory to steer players in the direction of waking it. This is why Sleeper was awoken on the vast majority of Everquest servers that have a healthy population (servers like Red don't count).

In reality you are designed to awaken the Sleeper, it isn't really a "choice". That is why it isn't different from a developer setting a random timer. It is designed to happen, and it does.

Video games are mostly an exercise in giving players the illusion of choice.

EDIT: Removing the story analogy to remove possible confusions. I just want to focus on the game theory aspect.

[Patrece]

This was implemented as a way for uber guilds to punish awful scumlings on their server. The sleeper stayed up on servers where guilds were amicable. I think it is great from that perspective and was warranted many times over on Green.

[Ripqozko]

Sorry you dont got warder loot, hope that helped.

[Jobaber]

Dude what the fuck dont wake the sleeper please.

[Swish]

well done, you win the prize. next server inc.