Sleeper being awoken tonight (April 13th)

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by JDAm0nk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

50+ pages of inane "debate" largely driven by someone who doesn't even play on Green...

I think you can stop now.

Whether or not you play on Green is irrelevant. Nobody's opinion would have changed here even if I was in Kingdom lol.

Blue and Green functionally work the same, there is no reason why a person on Blue cannot comment on the functionality of Green. The minor differences such as custom UI on Blue and not Green are tiny, so please do not try to straw man me with this, it is just a waste of time.

[Goldknyght]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I never impeded your free speech lol. You can say whatever you want. However, simply saying it is a dick move doesn't make it so. Not really sure how you think you are scoring points by refuting a point I didn't make.

No goalposts have been moved. Simply saying that isn't a clever way to try and discredit me. You need to explain how and why the goalposts were moved. The entire post history is here, I will happily admit you are right if you can prove it.

Using an analogy doesn't make it an opinion lol. You can use an analogy to explain facts if the readers don't understand the concept directly. Analogies are a communication tool, not a magical device that changes facts into opinions.

Players and Developers are different, I never said they weren't. However, just because Players and Developers have differences, doesn't magically mean everything they do is incomparable, or alien. You are using improper logic to assume that because Players and Developers have differences, you can use that as an excuse to claim you are correct, and change the definition of loot denial to fit your narrative.

There is nothing in the definition of loot denial to suggest only players can do it. Also, there is nothing in the definition of loot denial to suggest it is inherently bad. Everquest is a game built on loot denial. If your guild gets a raid boss, you have denied the competing guilds that boss's loot. But I don't see people claiming that is bad. It is just part of any game where scarcity is a component. Really the only situations where I can think loot denial is bad is ninja looting or hacking the game. Everything else is within the rules, and thus fair game.



Thanks for the support!

And you saying it doesnt make is so, doesnt also make it so. your point?

Yes using an analogy is an opinion cuz its like apples(dev) vs oranges(players) and yes they are both fruit(time), but whatever you have to say about it, is what you perceive, not the truth outside its only a matter of time, which no one was arguing. Just they aren't the same kind of timer is what people keep telling you.

An so if EQ is based of loot denial, there should of never been a PnP because I should be able to do anything to prevent you from obtaining loot, if thats my ultimate goal, with the tools that EQ lets me use with either stealing ur kill or just denying you the kill with a train. But etiquette says don't do those things. Therefore its known in the EQ community, waking the sleeper is a D*** move even if server says its ok. There is nothing to be gained, only lost by waking the sleeper. End of story. So the act of doing it, makes it a D*** move and you know it, but since it doesn't really matter to u either way, your ok with it.

And if loot denial wasnt something that was bad. Later xpacs in everquest would not have went instanced. So your logic is actually way off base there.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goldknyght [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And you saying it doesnt make is so, doesnt also make it so. your point?

Yes using an analogy is an opinion cuz its like apples(dev) vs oranges(players) and yes they are both fruit(time), but whatever you have to say about it, is what you perceive, not the truth outside its only a matter of time, which no one was arguing. Just they aren't the same kind of timer is what people keep telling you.

An so if EQ is based of loot denial, there should of never been a PnP because I should be able to do anything to prevent you from obtaining loot, if thats my ultimate goal, with the tools that EQ lets me use with either killing your steal or just denying you the kill with a train. But etiquette says don't do those things. Therefore its known in the EQ community, waking the sleeper is a D*** move even if server says its ok. There is nothing to be gained, only lost by waking the sleeper. End of story. So the act of doing it, makes it a D*** move and you know it, but since it doesn't really matter to u either way, your ok with it.

And if loot denial wasnt something that was bad. Later xpacs in everquest would not have went instanced. So your logic is actually way off base there.

The difference is I can prove my points by showing you evidence based on how the game actually works lol. Manastone was removed years ago on Green and Blue. That is a fact, not an opinion. Sleeper was specifically programmed to be a one time event. It was a one time event on Blue, and it was a one time event on Green. Both of these are facts. We have data from two servers, and the time between Blue Velious and Green Velious was years. We can safely conclude this wasn't a bug on the Developers part. They haven't said it was, and they didn't fix it. My evidence is MUCH stronger than yours, which is literally just an opinion. Can I say with 100% certainty? No, nobody can do that. But 95% is close enough, and WAY closer than you[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are simply wrong about how you think analogies work. I am sorry. If a child asks you "what is gravity?", do you explain all of the physics behind it? No, you use an analogy like "Gravity is like jumping up and down." That isn't a 100% accurate explanation of the situation, but it is still a fact, just conveyed in a different manner.

The PnP doesn't prevent all forms of loot denial. The kinds of loot denial that we do not want have been specified in the PnP. Sleeper is not included in the PnP, therefore he is fair game. That is why you can camp most things indefinitely, as long as you are not AFK, for example. I do not advise doing that, as sleep is a good thing, but you are not prevented from doing so.

Again, you are mixing up the original timeline and organic developement of Everquest with P99. The intentions of the original developers who made Everquest and the P99 developers are different. The P99 developers are not making a brand new game, and changing it dynamically as they discover new things. They are replicating the game as it was Classic->Velious, warts and all. This also means whatever functionality was in Classic->Velious is intended to be in P99. Otherwise, they would have taken it out. They could easily add instancing to P99 if they wanted to, for example. There is nothing stopping them.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DSM will autistically keep replying over and over. Just say anything and you'll get a response.

[Goldknyght]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The difference is I can prove my points by showing you evidence based on how the game actually works lol. Manastone was removed years ago on Green and Blue. That is a fact, not an opinion. Sleeper was specifically programmed to be a one time event. It was a one time event on Blue, and it was a one time event on Green. Both of these are facts. We have data from two servers, and the time between Blue Velious and Green Velious was years. We can safely conclude this wasn't a bug on the Developers part. They haven't said it was, and they didn't fix it. My evidence is MUCH stronger than yours, which is literally just an opinion. Can I say with 100% certainty? No, nobody can do that. But 95% is close enough, and WAY closer than you[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are simply wrong about how you think analogies work. I am sorry. If a child asks you "what is gravity?", do you explain all of the physics behind it? No, you use an analogy like "Gravity just like jumping up and down." That isn't a 100% accurate explanation of the situation, but it is still a fact, just conveyed in a different manner.

The PnP doesn't prevent all forms of loot denial. The kinds of loot denial that we do not want have been specified in the PnP. Sleeper is not included in the PnP. That is why you can camp most things indefinitely, as long as you are not AFK, for example. I do not advise doing that, as sleep is a good thing, but you are not prevented from doing so.

Again, you are mixing up the original timeline and organic developement of Everquest with P99. The intentions of the original developers who made Everquest and the P99 developers are different. The P99 developers are not making a brand new game, and changing it dynamically as they discover new things. They are replicating the game as it was Classic->Velious, warts and all. This also means whatever functionality was in Classic->Velious is intended to be in P99. Otherwise, they would have taken it out.

oh god, you keep grasping at straws because things are removed. No one argued they weren't removed. Just that there removals aren't the same. It does actually matter how something was removed. Context always matters.

And no im not wrong, it just doesnt matter to you, so you can fit your narrative and never be false with the logic your using. No one is using your logic except you, its why its your opinion. But tell me again in the same way its not.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goldknyght [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

oh god, you keep grasping at straws because things are removed. No one argued they weren't removed. Just that there removals aren't the same. It does actually matter how something was removed. Context always matters.

And no im not wrong, it just doesnt matter to you, so you can fit your narrative and never be false with the logic your using. No one is using your logic except you, its why its your opinion. But tell me again in the same way its not.

It doesn't matter how they were removed if the removal is intentional. It is part of the game, it's not a bug, and not prohibited by the PnP. The P99 developers intended Manastone to be removed, and they intended Sleeper to be awoken. The data backs up me up, while you have nothing.

You're assertion that "how it was removed" matters is your attempt at shaping the narrative to fit your opinion. You are bending backwards to change the definition of loot denial to only include Seal Team. That is incorrect.

[Goldknyght]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It doesn't matter how they were removed if the removal is intentional. It is part of the game, it's not a bug, and not prohibited by the PnP. The P99 developers intended Manastone to be removed, and they intended Sleeper to be awoken. The data backs up me up, while you have nothing.

You're assertion that "how it was removed" matters is your attempt at shaping the narrative to fit your opinion. You are bending backwards to change the definition of loot denial to only include Seal Team. That is incorrect.

So are you willing to admit, its Your and My opinion like I've been saying this entire time?

[fortior]

55 pages lol, holy shit. you guys are mad

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goldknyght [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So are you willing to admit, its Your and My opinion like I've been saying this entire time?

Where did I admit it was my opinion when I just said I have the data to back it up? You can play the game to see that Manastone is no longer dropping. You can watch the video of Sleeper being awoken, and see that Warders are no longer spawning. This is true for both servers. You can check all of the developer notes/comments and you won't find them claiming Sleeper isn't working as intended. You can check the PnP, and you won't find an exception for Sleeper, saying he cannot be woken up.

[Ripqozko]

Taking bets on DSM going 100+ pages, what you got?