If knights had defensive, would there be any reason to have warriors?

[pasi]

Originally Posted by Keebz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well in classic they are just straight up better than warriors at tanking. Kunark is where the pure melees get severely overcompensated.

I'd mostly agree with this.

A warrior with a mallet is optimal for the handful of raid bosses - most of which are PoSky. Since most of the level 50 raid content is clearing trash, I'd agree with giving SK/Paladin the nod over warriors. Sub-optimal and slightly insane, but Ogre Shaman aren't that far behind the knights at 50 either. There's very few 50 mobs that are tankable by War/SK/Paladin that couldn't be tanked by an ogre shaman.

Though the nice part about playing a warrior in classic is that half the server is mages/necro/enchanters (assuming you have coerced them to group). You don't need to be the top threat to hold aggro. You just need to be the highest threat PC in melee range awhile everyone else is below the mage, necro, and/or enchanter pets. If a pet is top of the hate of list and you're the highest threat person in melee range, you are "holding aggro."

As far as fixing knights, I see no problem with giving knights a defensive-type ability that either has a lower duration or lower mitigation (say 35% versus 50%). They would still be a trash-tier raid class.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Keebz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

While we're here though, my thoughts on disc balancing for knights:

Buff Sanctification (duration/cooldown) enough that Paladins become a compelling choice for AoE heavy fights.

Buff Leechcurse into a bump, such that it auto ripostes (maybe only 66%) of the time. SKs can now bump properly and are more useful for pull team/engages. I also want to give them Sightgraft/Harmshield, but that's another thread.

Yea sks really got the shaft compared to pallies when you look at spells. Shoulda had harmshield and a lich(I know yeli has a wep). Also shoulda gotten bind pet as you said.

[Nibblewitz]

Did anyone mention evasive discipline?

[Videri]

Originally Posted by Nibblewitz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did anyone mention evasive discipline?

That's a good one too! Great for Venril Sathir (so that maybe fewer lifetaps will go off if the rune chain has a gap), or for tanking lots of lesser bosses back to back, or certain other fights...I can't remember which one that's kind of surprising but smart if you think about it.

Does Evasive lower our hit rate, though?

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Warriors will still pump out more threat on long fights.

Have fun casting FoL on AoW.

Would it help on quakes / speed clearing? Sure. You're still not main tanking anything hard though, hope this helps.

Resisted spells are still a ton of hate. If not, rangers couldn’t bump with two flame licks.

Most of this game can be knight tanked. You just need a lot more clerics to stay mana neutral. It’s just not an exercise worth the practice.

[Vivitron]

Originally Posted by pasi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You don't need to be the top threat to hold aggro. You just need to be the highest threat PC in melee range awhile everyone else is below the mage, necro, and/or enchanter pets. If a pet is top of the hate of list and you're the highest threat person in melee range, you are "holding aggro."

It probably should work like that, but it doesn't.

If you have one pet and one player melee in melee range and aggro is pet > caster > melee, the mob will chase the caster.

This is usually an edge case that is hard to notice, but can be an annoyance in a low man monk/enchanter setup. Suppose the enchanter tags off the flop and puts some slows into the mob before the monk returns to melee. The mob will chase towards the enchanter just far enough to get out of the monks melee range, then it will return to hitting the pet.

If you have multiple other things in melee range other than the high aggro pet, the npc can skip to other things in melee range instead of the caster or the tank. I don't know the full rules on what the npc chooses to hit but sometimes this will cause it to hit a pet even though players are in melee range. Other times an early slow will make it look like a rogue over aggroed.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Nibblewitz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did anyone mention evasive discipline?

Evasive absolutely destroys group content. Especially by higher level when you can spend half the time under effect of this disc.

Originally Posted by Videri [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Does Evasive lower our hit rate, though?

Not noticeably- evasive certainly opens up many more mobs as becoming soloable meaning it skewers down incoming dps much more than it does outgoing dps.

[Naethyn]

The real tragedy is monks get block with a fist and knights and warriors can't block with a shield equipped. This one change would likely make it so knights could tank zlandicar and other targets that monks can do easily because they have block.

[Jimjam]

Agreed, shieldblock would be cool, and imo if bash generated aggro as designed (similar to stun spells) proper sword and board tanking would get a proper look in (at a range of contexts - grouping as well as raiding).

[Toxigen]

Shieldwall disc for pallies and SKs.