The Corona Perspective Some of You Seem to lack

[douglas1999]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Look, you're trying to do hand wavey shit and tossing a lot of numbers around but im saying the numbers are even irrelevant when it comes to flu/covid

not to mention the death rate of the flu ranges from VERY HIGH to very low year by year, and its an entierly different flu that cant be contained and all the other things that im repeating myself again and again about that you are IGNORING!

Flu is different, its not containable, covid is a different virus all together, it is containable. There will be a vaccine!

JUST LIKE YOU SAY TRUMP IS NOT A NAZI and his supporters are not racists : I do not want to enforce masks ,and new overlords to protect us from the flu, and also remove cars, and also put a police officer in every house to prevent accidents, and take away free will, just because I want to contain COVID for 2 years while we develop a vaccine!!!!

Relax I'm getting your point that a virus being "containable" vs. a virus not being containable matters, because if you can contain one then of course less people end up dying. So the relevant factor for you is obviously containability.

What authoritative body has said that sars-cov-2 is "containable" though? It spread incredibly rapidly. It's highly contagious, ebola is not. In fact, almost everyone on the planet will inevitably be infected by it at some point. Thankfully, the disease it causes (covid-19) is not highly fatal, at all. I'm seriously not trying to troll you, I'm just trying to communicate clearly.

[Castle2.0]

Originally Posted by WHO

The virus A(H1N1), which causes what was commonly referred to in the past as "swine flu", caused a flu pandemic in 2009. Since then, this virus has continued to circulate in people in Europe and elsewhere, so that it is now a seasonal human flu virus.

Source: https://www.euro.who.int/en/health-t...1n1-key-issues

Originally Posted by CDC

The H1N1 virus that caused that pandemic is now a regular human flu virus and continues to circulate seasonally worldwide.

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/updates/080709.htm

My prediction about COVID... You guessed it.

[Jibartik]

Originally Posted by douglas1999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What authoritative body has said that sars-cov-2 is "containable" though? It spread incredibly rapidly. It's highly contagious, ebola is not. In fact, almost everyone on the planet will inevitably be infected by it at some point. Thankfully, the disease it causes (covid-19) is not highly fatal, at all. I'm seriously not trying to troll you, I'm just trying to communicate clearly.

No authority but this is what the best minds on the earth are doing their best to determine the threat that changes daily, at the top, there are no links to read or articles to share, there is just results of tests!

But covid's make up makes it much more containable than influenza.

Re: not fatal at all? That is a strange way to look at something that is fatal and avoidable. Its like a smoker's rationalization about cancer rates.

Also its entiearly untrue that everyone will be infected, did you know only 20% of earth got the spanish flu?

Originally Posted by Castle2.0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My prediction about COVID... You guessed it.

So wait what are you saying here? Im not sure Im following you. Are you saying that covid will become a regular thing?

I wont say that wont happen, but I will say it could be prevented.

Covid does have the ability to mutate, like all viruses, but its a when/if/how concern.

idk, you're going to have to be more specific, Im not sure I follow you.

[Castle2.0]

I wont say that wont happen, but I will say it could be prevented.

Sorry man, it's too late.

I know you're a compassionate guy. I know you hate COVID just like me. It's just too late. It's also not the end of the world. IFR is much lower than initially thought and we'll have a vaccine in time.

I predict, just like H1N1, it will be seasonal BUT, also a part of the seasonal flu shot - I hope every one of my elf pals gets every season - it helps.

My point is simply, we need to let people decide the level of precaution they want to take. The people most likely to die from flu are the same people most likely to die from COVID. We need to protect those people - let the rest of us young healthy people go to work and face the infinitesimal small chance of death. The same thing we do every day we get into a car and get on the highway.

Stay safe friends, but also stay fearless.

[waltjig]

None of this matters. Think for a minute about what could be done if everyone realized that people have differing opinions, and then just moved on. What we should be doing is banding together to stop paying income tax. Get out of the wheel sheeple

[Jibartik]

Originally Posted by Castle2.0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry man, it's too late.

I know you're a compassionate guy. I know you hate COVID just like me. It's just too late. It's also not the end of the world. IFR is much lower than initially thought and we'll have a vaccine in time.

I predict, just like H1N1, it will be seasonal BUT, also a part of the seasonal flu shot - I hope every one of my elf pals gets every season - it helps.

My point is simply, we need to let people decide the level of precaution they want to take. The people most likely to die from flu are the same people most likely to die from COVID. We need to protect those people - let the rest of us young healthy people go to work and face the infinitesimal small chance of death. The same thing we do every day we get into a car and get on the highway.

Stay safe friends, but also stay fearless.

Agree about too late, in feb I said "worst case scenario is 300k deaths and a country that is too apathetic to understand why that is bad"

And we're basically at my worse case scenario.

All I'm saying is, worst case scenario was achieved because of Trump and his ongoing message about the virus that is embraced by many people that use misrepresented information to support him, and I hold him accountable. He made a choice and he went all in and people died as a result and Im not going to not call a spade a spade.

Edit: But it's not to late to save a life by casually wearing a mask until we can roll out a vaccine, or until the vast investments being made in doing so dry up because we realize we cannot. And you can say you're not arguing not to, but you're arguing not to!

As for the second wave, just put the mask on and pray to god that we can get a vaccine out into peoples arms soon. Pray that we can maintain a better containment should it ever rear its head again. Help us get better at what worked and avoid what didn't.

or be a hater and immoral IMO, and you can think im a coward because I think that, makes no diff to me, just like it makes no diff to you that I think you're being immoral [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[JackofSpade]

Originally Posted by Castle2.0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry mate, I have to "listen to the health experts"



So you're saying we SHOULDN'T use the same lockdown measures because the two are VERY different?

On similarity v differences of Flu and Covid see: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/flu-vs-covid19.htm

Pretty darn similar.

How is COVID containable and flu is not? Was H1N1 containable? If so, why haven't we contained it? If it isn't, why is COVID any different?

Did you not read the article you linked there, or do you have difficulties with reading comprehension? The differences are listed very clearly and simply.

[douglas1999]

Originally Posted by JackofSpade [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did you not read the article you linked there, or do you have difficulties with reading comprehension? The differences are listed very clearly and simply.

The differences amount to "One is bad, and the other is slightly more bad". The question, yet again, is how does this justify the measures being taken? How do you rationalize away the devastating economic impact of widespread lockdowns and the countless lives affected by them? Why shouldn't we take the same measures to prevent, literally any other disease? The elderly are particularly susceptible to the common cold as well. It's an incredibly simple question. This is what is frustrating people. Diseases emerge, we do not shut down nearly the entirety of the world until we have a vaccine for them, especially when vaccines (including the flu vaccine btw) are not even remotely close to 100% effective.

[Jibartik]

Originally Posted by douglas1999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The differences amount to "One is bad, and the other is slightly more bad". The question, yet again, is how does this justify the measures being taken? How do you rationalize away the devastating economic impact of widespread lockdowns and the countless lives affected by them? Why shouldn't we take the same measures to prevent, literally any other disease? The elderly are particularly susceptible to the common cold as well. It's an incredibly simple question. This is what is frustrating people. Diseases emerge, we do not shut down nearly the entirety of the world until we have a vaccine for them, especially when vaccines (including the flu vaccine btw) are not even remotely close to 100% effective.

Id say that the problem is being exaserbated by people saying we should give up, rather than saying hey, 6-8 more months, we'll have a clear roadmap and know what our situatino is with the vaccine.

Your argument, is because you've had enough, that we should all just give up. That just aint positive. Just aint right.

If you care about the impact this has on society, help us work through it, dont nay say anything we do to try to. That's making it worse, that's the point of my whole argument. Before long I wont hold trump culpable ill hold people and maybe by then we'll have that draconian communist future you're afraid of and all your words online are going to put you into organ harvesting camps. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So shadap an wear a mask, help people out by supporting your neighbors during this tough time, so we dont decend into dystopia and get back to soccer games!

Im going to break down your questions, even though answered them already in this thread, because you say that people not explaining this to you is what is so frustrating:

How do you rationalize away the devastating economic impact of widespread lockdowns and the countless lives affected by them?

I dont, I argue that trump made decisions that caused it and if we went at it like other countries instead of like he said we should, we wouldn't have had as bad of an impact.

Looking back we could have had huge freezes on the economy to make people safe but he chose not to do that because he was afraid of panics, and lied and told people it would be over by summer, so there was no need, and here we are, looking at a year where we definitely could have and would be better off with massive freezes on the economy, mortgages, and rent. Let alone stimulus for the working class, or schools?? OR VOTING?? From where I stand it looks like he's doing it all on purpose but I refuse to believe in conspiracy theory.

Why shouldn't we take the same measures to prevent, literally any other disease?

1. rate of infection
2. death rate
3. extremely slow mutation rate

"literally any other disease" as you put it, 99.9999999999% of the time does not have a high rate of infection, a high death rate, and an extremely slow mutation rate. (if covid did not have 3, we would already be at end of days right now warring over what's left of food lol)

The elderly are particularly susceptible to the common cold as well.

The cold mutates at an extremely fast rate, trying to contain it would be like trying to breathe under water, you suggesting because we can stop aids, that we should try to breathe under water?

It's an incredibly simple question. This is what is frustrating people.

Simple quedsiton, simple answer:

1. infection rate
2. death rate
3. mutation rate

Diseases emerge, we do not shut down nearly the entirety of the world until we have a vaccine for them, especially when vaccines (including the flu vaccine btw) are not even remotely close to 100% effective.

The flu vaccine is not effective because of the:

3. mutation rate

other viruses do not have a high:

1. infection rate

So we dont need to do what were doing for covid.

Covid's mutation rate, indicates that a vaccine will be usable, against the 1 type of mutation we've seen, and any future ones, again because of the min max of real life, the virus does not have the cellular structure to mutate fast enough to become immune to vaccinations. (that is un proven but most likely, and will be proven within the next year)

Im not blowing smoke up your ass. This isnt fake news liberal propaganda to make us all wear head scarves.

There is a reason the world is shutting down over this, and its not because we're all crazy!

Lastly, can someone who thinks we should not try and should just not even care bout covid deaths, explain to me how your version of society is better?

[Castle2.0]

BTW, ~40% of the US is obese.

Obesity is a comorbidity of COVID.

I suspect the IFR in US is HIGHER than many countries for this reason alone.

And of course, it's Donald Trump's fault so many Americans are suddenly overweight from 2016-2020 when this phenomenon was discovered.

I suggest required masking around feeding time for Americans to reduce their food intake. Make it nationwade.