2 wu's trance sticks vs wu's quivering staff

[koros]

I just showed you the math, keeping in mind the damage cap.

[dancingclown22]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We're talking about a L10 monk here. Way different pre and post dmg cap. I plan on parsing this once I find some time.

I'm not arguing that it's not different pre and post dmg cap. But even pre 20, the difference in DPS will be microscopic at best. Go with what's more fun to you. If you already have WQS, you might as well keep it and save yourself the time in EC trading. You'll be 20 by then anyway.

[Loke]

Originally Posted by koros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just showed you the math, keeping in mind the damage cap.

Not arguing your math, just that the math and in game don't always work out as we think. I'm basing my info off ~2 years of playing and parsing a monk here, but it has also been awhile since I played my monk as a main, so I don't know. I was just saying that I'd parse it once I find some time, as currently I'm not on a PC that has EQ or a parser. I could very well be wrong, but still don't think I am.

[koros]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not arguing your math, just that the math and in game don't always work out as we think. I'm basing my info off ~2 years of playing and parsing a monk here, but it has also been awhile since I played my monk as a main, so I don't know. I was just saying that I'd parse it once I find some time, as currently I'm not on a PC that has EQ or a parser. I could very well be wrong, but still don't think I am.

The game uses formulas which result in a predictable distribution of hits. The formulas we use to calculate it do the same. That would be like me saying, "the odds of flipping a coin and it ending up heads is 50%" and you replying, "well that's just in theory, in practice that's not always the case"

[Loke]

Originally Posted by koros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The game uses formulas which result in a predictable distribution of hits. The formulas we use to calculate it do the same. That would be like me saying, "the odds of flipping a coin and it ending up heads is 50%" and you replying, "well that's just in theory, in practice that's not always the case"

Yes, but the formulas aren't always what we think they are. For example, for years on this server 2-hand damage bonuses did not differentiate between weapons above and below 40 delay. That is why RFS and T-staff both parsed on par with Ton Po's. Someone back then could have waved around equations on the forum, but still been dead wrong about what actually happened in game. My point is that unless a dev shows up here and pastes some code for us, I'm going to trust a parse over some math some random guy posted on the forums, especially when it goes against what has routinely been held as true (that 1-hand is king sub L20).

[koros]

And if someone said that I would have posted this. Per Rogean.

http://codepad.org/NjMM455H

Code as it was on live, in line with the timeline. I know what I'm talking about.

Relevant part (in reference to what you're talking about about the damage bonus not changing based on delay):

// Kunark until Sep. 19, 2000, better than 1H bonus.
else if (RuleI(Combat,TwoHandedDmgBonus) == 1)
{
if (GetLevel() > 50)
return ((GetLevel() - 7) / 3);
else
return ((GetLevel() - 25) / 2);
}

[Loke]

I was just using the 2hb thing as an example of how people can apply formulas yet have them not equate to actual in-game performance for whatever reason, be it a miscalculation, unknown variables, wrong equation all together, or whatever. Sometime over the next couple days I'll actually stop being lazy and parse a 25-50 mob sample size on a L1 monk using both weapons. We can argue about formulas and what should be true all day, but until someone actually tests it in game we're just going to argue in circles. Even you admit that you made some assumptions in your original calculations. I'm not saying that there is some mystical factor that causes the game to perform differently from the coding, just that your calculations don't jive with what myself and a large portion of the server as observed, so I think we can only assume that both my anecdotal evidence and your calculations could both be flawed - hence my desire to parse it (when I can, so busy!)

[koros]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was just using the 2hb thing as an example of how people can apply formulas yet have them not equate to actual in-game performance for whatever reason, be it a miscalculation, unknown variables, wrong equation all together, or whatever. Sometime over the next couple days I'll actually stop being lazy and parse a 25-50 mob sample size on a L1 monk using both weapons. We can argue about formulas and what should be true all day, but until someone actually tests it in game we're just going to argue in circles. Even you admit that you made some assumptions in your original calculations. I'm not saying that there is some mystical factor that causes the game to perform differently from the coding, just that your calculations don't jive with what myself and a large portion of the server as observed, so I think we can only assume that both my anecdotal evidence and your calculations could both be flawed - hence my desire to parse it (when I can, so busy!)

What's the max hit < 10? Is it 20? If so then this only applies 10+

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by koros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The game uses formulas which result in a predictable distribution of hits. The formulas we use to calculate it do the same. That would be like me saying, "the odds of flipping a coin and it ending up heads is 50%" and you replying, "well that's just in theory, in practice that's not always the case"

I'm not saying Loke is right, but the median hit model is just an approximation; comparing it with coin flipping is somewhat disingenuous. There are so many variables that could account for a difference (for example the particular AC/implementation of P1999, especially because I am almost certain it isn't classic or the relatively higher level of mobs that our highly twinked playerbase fights at low levels) that I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss experience. Ultimately you need an experiment.

[crkhobbit]

Im almost 100% sure that dual wield cap is way higher than 100 at 19. I quit dw'ing completely when I hit 20, and my dw skill is at least 145.