If you believe in god, you're an idiot...

[Alawen Everywhere]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This doesn't mean people are young-earth creationists - just because they're open to the idea of intelligent design. Anyone who's spent any real time debating or reading the academics in the field don't waste their time insulting people - they get right to the crux arguments. So get to them - and don't degrade others for having a belief you don't understand, particularly if you're not getting to the facts yourself, or perhaps don't really know them at all.

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well-credentialed people in the hard sciences tend to be agnostic or theist. Well-credentialed people in social sciences or humanities tend to be Atheist.

I was curious if you'd weigh in here and what your thoughts would be.

The source of Intelligent Design "theory" is a fundamentalist Christian project called the Discovery Institute. The Discovery Institute commissioned a viable argument for teaching creationism or the "controversy" of evolution in public schools. This culminated in the 1989 publication of "Of Pandas and People," a pseudo-science high school biology text.

The thoughts behind intelligent design have been around since the Greek philosophers. The "proof" of a creator changes from era to era as our understanding of underlying science increases. The most recent arguments center around irreducible complexity, with the most popular example being bacterial flagella. Interestingly enough, these arguments resemble Boggwin's logic of searching for an unknown and claiming that an unknown proves the existence of God. The Discovery Institute avoids naming God and favors the euphemism "the designer."

The big problem with ID is that it doesn't hold up to scientific process. As a theory, it's untestable nature causes it to fail. Its dearth of peer-reviewed publications leaves it with basically William Dembski and Michael Behe to defend it, and even Dembski bailed on testifying about ID after he saw the difficulties Behe had in cross-examination.

One interesting aspect of ID, to me, is lack of acceptance by the Vatican. Catholic policy has slowly evolved (heh) to accept the possibility of Darwin's theories but high-ranking church scholars reject ID. I don't quite understand the reasoning, but it has something to do with the difference between divine causality and created causality.

Personally, I find no credibility whatsoever in any of the origins, objectives or methods of the Discovery Institute. There are no other significant backers of ID. I find the entire project decidedly disingenuous, deceptive and surprisingly un-Christian. I have much more respect for people like RocketMoose who expresses his faith as faith and doesn't try to make it into what it is not.

On the other topic of who tends to be atheistic, theistic or agnostic, you offer some very broad generalizations with no supporting evidence. I think you know this is a completely vapid argument.

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by Alawen Everywhere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...One interesting aspect of ID, to me, is lack of acceptance by the Vatican. Catholic policy has slowly evolved (heh) to accept the possibility of Darwin's theories but high-ranking church scholars reject ID. I don't quite understand the reasoning, but it has something to do with the difference between divine causality and created causality...

From Communion and Stewardship:

it is important to note that, according to the Catholic understanding of divine causality, true contingency in the created order is not incompatible with a purposeful divine providence. Divine causality and created causality radically differ in kind and not only in degree. Thus, even the outcome of a truly contingent natural process can nonetheless fall within God’s providential plan for creation.

Yes...Catholics have their cake and eat it, too...and it's a much more preferable view than the bible thumping "you're goin' to hell fer sayin' we come from monkeys, boy" crowd.

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[Nizzarr]

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[JayDee]

hey ur ghey

[muddy27]

I believe that aliens created us more than the whole god created us theory, watch ancient aliens on the history channel. Watch both seasons. And also there is life after death and one proof of that is ghosts and spirits may not be heaven but diffrent planes of existence just like this is the earthly plain. Also interesting to note amino acids yes the same amino acids that are found in are body are were also found in some meteors here recently look it up. Its also believed that the earth wasnt originally from this solar system of course thats just speculation. On a side note everyone has a right to believe what they want to even if we dont always agree with them ( the jehovahs witnesses that knocked on my door yesterday) They leave every time without me being converted, the one guy called me to deep a thinker lol.

[Pycoba_rng]

Originally Posted by rachel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For one Bogg is a known troll. He had what a 20page thread months ago and at the end said I'm lying about everything haha trolled you. Than stated his friend and him were laughing so hard. HE"S A CHILD. he's probably atheist and just getting a kick out of this again.

Anyways, I don't believe god created anything. Neither does steven hawking. Kinda odd that the most int. people on the planet a huge majority of them don't believe either.

If there was any , and I mean any proof at all. I would second guess if a god existed.

What if there are MANY gods 10 or 400 or 9999999 of them?

When does space end ?

If this god created the universe. It doesn't care at all about humans or other beings. It doesn't show itself even though it could. It lets nature take it's course , will be the answer as to why so much pain is in the world believers will say. Why we were created with nerve endings and not a different form of signals to the brain.

There is no god, until proven. = There is 0 evidence of a god
There is tons of evidence for science.

I am glad people have hope in something to get them through life. I don't need too and I can not make myself believe a lie. It's impossible. Kids on my bus used to tease me at the age of 6 because I didn't believe in god. I just hope soon we can prove there is none. With all the evidence of HOW the universe was created without a god. They already have it ,, it's almost done. a few more years maybe for the fine details.

I can still be a morally better person than anyone that believes in god.

This is entirely laughable. Especially the part where you said god doesn't care about human beings... Man kinds worst enemy is himself. You want to be angry at someone? Be angry at yourself. God cares enough about you to let you destroy yourself , rather then wiping you off the face of the planet in a blink of an eye. I laugh at any argument basing man kinds evils and how its god fault. Or how he can prevent them. In this world we are taught to learn from our mistakes. The funny thing is people keep making the same mistakes over and over. We kill , hurt , pillage , and destroy. Maybe when mankind gets his shit togeather and applies the bible to his life. Maybe then god would show himself to you in person. Until that time hes better left silent and in our prayors. If you actually read the bible. You will learn that if people leared from the stories it teaches , not take them at face value , but applied its teaches. The world would be a better place...

[Massive Marc]

Originally Posted by Pycoba_rng [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is entirely laughable. Especially the part where you said god doesn't care about human beings... Man kinds worst enemy is himself. You want to be angry at someone? Be angry at yourself. God cares enough about you to let you destroy yourself , rather then wiping you off the face of the planet in a blink of an eye. I laugh at any argument basing man kinds evils and how its god fault. Or how he can prevent them. In this world we are taught to learn from our mistakes. The funny thing is people keep making the same mistakes over and over. We kill , hurt , pillage , and destroy. Maybe when mankind gets his shit togeather and applies the bible to his life. Maybe then god would show himself to you in person. Until that time hes better left silent and in our prayors. If you actually read the bible. You will learn that if people leared from the stories it teaches , not take them at face value , but applied its teaches. The world would be a better place...

A lot of the problems in bold were also done in the name of the Bible and God, so I don't understand what your getting at.

[RocketMoose]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's true. God and Religion are very different things. Religion is centralized power, and centralized power is the initial catalyst for all oppression.

The idea of God and the choice to believe is present in every individual - religion requires collective coercion.

Well said, and what I've tried to point out many times in this thread. People try to relate the 'church' with God, and while a church may claim to know God, love God, and act in the name of God, there are many times when they are only out for selfish gains, or to make themselves feel better about their actions, whether it be sodomizing little boys, or whatever they choose to support.

This thread makes me really sad to see the shape of people, and how deranged and mislead they are. It makes me want to be able to get through to them, and somewhere deep down I feel like I can, but obviously they are set in their ways, and thus I must not cast my pearls before swine. So conflicted, how to care about people, yet have to walk away when you just see the point of blind hatred is unbreakable.

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

Originally Posted by Massive Marc [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A lot of the problems in bold were also done in the name of the Bible and God, so I don't understand what your getting at.

So they were done in the name of the bible. So what? What does that mean? If I went out an killed someone and said that I was doing it in your name, does that mean you sanctioned it? Not at all. Fallacious argument much?

[moklianne]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

84 pages of "No! You sir are wrong, and I am correct. Here read my copy/past from Google, it will prove my point."

That's religion for ya.