FE knowingly KS's TMO's Trak, Rushes to complete keys and Epics - Page 74

kotton05 · #1 03-13-2013, 02:57 PM

Full circle completely wiped on VS, got fte. Grats FC. so your logic is flawed. what about VS logs? hmmm

Frieza_Prexus · #2 03-13-2013, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kotton05 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Full circle completely wiped on VS, got fte. Grats FC. so your logic is flawed. what about VS logs? hmmm

Past precedent is that as long as a guild has maintained at least some form of continuous aggro, that the encounter is awarded to them. If at any time the chain of aggro from FTE to mob death did not have a member of the guild on it, the kill could be otherwise awarded.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maverixdamighty

but when you guys do it it is to position the mob lol? hahahhahahh

Again, past precedent has generally circled around maintaining a continuous chain of aggro and expressing good faith intent to engage the mob. If TMO positions a mob and loses the chain of aggro, that mob goes on the market. TMO generally employs tactics that preserve the chain.

However, it is interesting to note that some previous decisions were very strict in their application of the FTE rule. Even if your raid force completely wiped or if you had a single name on the mob (with FTE) you could win the mob. It seems that P99 caselaw is very much evolving to a true FTE with good faith and actual intent as opposed to a strict "First to grab aggro" or "first to grab and maintain a chain of aggro even if you have no intent to kill the mob."

falkun · #3 03-13-2013, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

However, it is interesting to note that some previous decisions were very strict in their application of the FTE rule. Even if your raid force completely wiped or if you had a single name on the mob (with FTE) you could win the mob. It seems that P99 caselaw is very much evolving to a true FTE with good faith and actual intent as opposed to a strict "First to grab aggro" or "first to grab and maintain a chain of aggro even if you have no intent to kill the mob."

It does appear this is the case. My only QQ is that this shift seems to be applied when it benefits TMO. In this instance, TMO engages 5 seconds after Option has FTE (apparantly after Merkk dies) and TMO is awarded loot, yet when TMO DA-tanks for 36 seconds before getting a non-FD class on Trak, they still retain the loot. It could be as simple as one side is much better at arguing their case than the other, but it looks fishy to me. Either way, as one TMO put it (paraphrasing) this is a lot of arguing for a mob that'll respawn in ~3days.

maverixdamighty · #4 03-13-2013, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It does appear this is the case. My only QQ is that this shift seems to be applied when it benefits TMO. In this instance, TMO engages 5 seconds after Option has FTE (apparantly after Merkk dies) and TMO is awarded loot, yet when TMO DA-tanks for 36 seconds before getting a non-FD class on Trak, they still retain the loot. It could be as simple as one side is much better at arguing their case than the other, but it looks fishy to me. Either way, as one TMO put it (paraphrasing) this is a lot of arguing for a mob that'll respawn in ~3days.

falkun · #5 03-13-2013, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It does appear this is the case. My only QQ is that this shift seems to be applied when it benefits TMO. In this instance, TMO engages 5 seconds after Option has FTE (apparantly after Merkk dies) and TMO is awarded loot, yet when TMO DA-tanks for 36 seconds before getting a non-FD class on Trak, they still retain the loot. It could be as simple as one side is much better at arguing their case than the other, but it looks fishy to me. Either way, as one TMO put it (paraphrasing) this is a lot of arguing for a mob that'll respawn in ~3days.

Lets review the server logs for both:
"TMO DA-tank where FE gets EXP" Trak:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tanthallas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1 Darkdeath (132401)[806] (O) The Mystical Order 60 Necromancer 10:14:20 0 10:15:20 60 0 20 71
2 Option (332777)[801] (O) Forceful Entry 60 Monk 10:14:37 17 10:15:20 43 0 2285 1221
3 Zeelot (122568)[776] (L) The Mystical Order 60 Shadow Knight 10:14:49 29 10:15:20 31 0 19 23
4 Szeth (149541)[814] Forceful Entry 60 Monk 10:14:56 36 10:15:20 24 0 721 827
5 Kegluas (69548)[774] The Mystical Order 60 Warrior 10:14:56 36 10:15:20 24 0 322 1300

36 seconds between TMO FTE and first non-FD class aggro.
"Option has FTE but TMO gets loot" Trak:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tanthallas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1 Option (332777)[775] (O) Forceful Entry 60 Monk 21:51:45 0 21:52:36 51 0 502 580
2 Zeelot (122568)[727] (L) The Mystical Order 60 Shadow Knight 21:51:50 5 21:52:14 24 0 80 287
3 Kleavage (309071)[742] The Mystical Order 60 Warrior 21:52:04 19 21:52:36 32 11211 2193 1886
4 Biggslick (306149)[726] The Mystical Order 60 Warrior 21:52:04 19 21:52:18 14 11210 566 2250
5 Raden (304670)[743] The Mystical Order 60 Shaman 21:52:05 20 21:52:36 31 11210 0 95
6 Kautin (295749)[774] The Mystical Order 60 Monk 21:52:05 20 21:52:36 31 0 1490 1846
7 Thrump (252350)[746] The Mystical Order 60 Shadow Knight 21:52:07 22 21:52:36 29 11211 1388 1704
8 Egue (8049)[751] Forceful Entry 60 Shadow Knight 21:52:09 24 21:52:36 27 0 253 549
9 Chief (33263)[776] The Mystical Order 60 Monk 21:52:09 24 21:52:36 27 11215 3041 2069
10 Redonk (280590)[741] The Mystical Order 60 Bard 21:52:09 24 21:52:36 27 11210 191 297
11 Adrenaline (30537)[781] The Mystical Order 60 Monk 21:52:10 25 21:52:36 26 0 857 1194
12 Zucantiz (293121)[725] The Mystical Order 60 Monk 21:52:11 26 21:52:36 25 11210 1379 1217
13 Sericx (76355)[2511] The Mystical Order 60 Monk 21:52:11 26 21:52:36 25 11215 1750 1516
14 Arkyiane (86950)[773] The Mystical Order 60 Rogue 21:52:12 27 21:52:36 24 0 3874 1831
15 Houdiny (331928)[732] Forceful Entry 60 Wizard 21:52:13 28 21:52:27 14 0 1650 1750

28 seconds between FTE and first non-FD class aggro. I will give props to TMO for putting 12 bodies on Trak in that time-frame though, much improved over the trickle in of the last Trak.

The only difference, which I can't tell definitively, is whether Option stayed non-FD until another FE (it would be Egue) obtained aggro before Houdiny was added to the list. Houdiny also appears to have been killed by Trak, but by the time Houdiny dies, Unbrella and other FE are on the aggro list.

Assuming Option was not FD before Egue entered the aggro list, this shouldn't be any different than the original Trak that began this thread and FE should have loot, not 2x TMO loots.