The Bard class needs work

[Faerie]

2002-03-07 11:32 Initial Entry

^for the charm spell. Could have been changed after classic, and this is a pve thing so probably should be made classic. I guess Selo's should break snare, but if they can't differentiate between PC-casted snare/root they should only make it classic on blue. Snare or root from a player should not be dispelled by Selo's because it's kinda gamebreaking.

18 seconds is a long time, anyone that played a bard should know this.

Basically dot's on live did MORE DMG if you stood still and LESS DMG if you ran.

Are you sure this wasn't just for NPCs? Oh, you edited this part of your post. Do you have proof that this wasn't applied to bards? If it's true, this is a pve bug and should be posted in the pve bug forum.

I don't have to act or respond constructively AT ALL because unlike you I have one huge thing going for me, I KNOW WTF I'M TALKING ABOUT!

You don't have to, no, but if you'd like to see any of these changes made you probably should. It's great that you know what you're talking about, but you're not doing anything for your cause by being unintelligible and talking in caps.

[Swyft]

Originally Posted by Faerie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2002-03-07 11:32 Initial Entry

^for the charm spell. Could have been changed after classic, and this is a pve thing so probably should be made classic. I guess Selo's should break snare, but if they can't differentiate between PC-casted snare/root they should only make it classic on blue. Snare or root from a player should not be dispelled by Selo's because it's kinda gamebreaking.

18 seconds is a long time, anyone that played a bard should know this.



Are you sure this wasn't just for NPCs?



You don't have to, no, but if you'd like to see any of these changes made you probably should. It's great that you know what you're talking about, but you're not doing anything for your cause by being unintelligible and talking in caps.

Your talking about balance, I'm talking about classic, if you Nerf Highsun to it's correct state of landing and Leave pillar of frost unlimited range you might as well delete the bard class because you just ended any chance of them pvping solo.

18 seconds seems like a long time BUT not when your charming in pvp, I have to grab the mob and even tho I'm fast the mob is not, then I have to run to the player and get close enough for my mob to run after him when I press pet attack. Now in 18 seconds that= 1-2 swings of mob before he's back on me, IF he even reaches the target. And no the spell was never changed it always worked that way up to 1 min duration could break at any time and Enchanters charm can last up to 20 mins so how does 1 minute seem long to you lol? It's not like I can buff the mob like enchanters can so he can just be dispelled.

If you were fighting a bard on live 9 times out of 10 he charmed something onto you, When's the last time you saw a bard charm something into someone HERE, I rest my case.

If you were fighting a bard on live 9 times out of 10 he charmed something onto you, When's the last time you saw a bard charm something into someone HERE, I rest my case.

[Faerie]

Why did you bring up Fansy? The "bardburn" bug he abused in RV needed the charmed NPC to stay in agro range of PoD. Running doesn't really come into play there.

Originally Posted by Swyft [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your talking about balance, I'm talking about classic, if you Nerf Highsun to it's correct state of landing and Leave pillar of frost unlimited range you might as well delete the bard class because you just ended any chance of them pvping solo.

Sounds like we're both talking about balance. In an ideal world, Highsun and AE nuke range would both be fixed. Bards would not be made useless if they were fixed first, though. Stop with the alarmist rhetoric.

Originally Posted by Swyft [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

18 seconds seems like a long time BUT not when your charming in pvp, I have to grab the mob and even tho I'm fast the mob is not, then I have to run to the player and get close enough for my mob to run after him when I press pet attack. Now in 18 seconds that= 1-2 swings of mob before he's back on me, IF he even reaches the target. And no the spell was never changed it always worked that way up to 1 min duration could break at any time and Enchanters charm can last up to 20 mins so how does 1 minute seem long to you lol? It's not like I can buff the mob like enchanters can so he can just be dispelled.

NPCs don't have to stay charmed for you to pull them around zones. And it really shouldn't be simple for a bard to charm something for use in pvp, considering they have tools like Selo's, the ability to cast while moving, mez, snare, and a 3 second cast time charm. I think maybe even if this song lasted up to 1 minute in classic, it should remain 18 seconds here. With an enchanter you can dispell their charm and it quickly becomes an ordeal for them to get control of things again, but with a bard the process of re-charming is much simpler.

Originally Posted by Swyft [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you were fighting a bard on live 9 times out of 10 he charmed something onto you, When's the last time you saw a bard charm something into someone HERE, I rest my case.

I haven't really seen many bards here, but each time I did in a 1v1 setting they locked me down with mez or stuns and had no need to charm. Why risk training yourself when you'll win regardless?

/pet attack range should be longer, but this is a pve and pvp change, and affects all pet classes.

EDIT: The more I think about it, the more I think you're right about 39 charm always being 1 minute in classic. I don't care enough to look for proof because it doesn't really change the effectiveness of the spell much at all in practice (even for PvE), but I bet if you could find clear evidence of it and write up a bug report without insulting him, nilbog would change it.

[Reddi who?]

Originally Posted by Littlegyno 9.0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

complains about p99 mechanics; fails to provide any proof except anecdotal bullshit from 12 years ago. shits vlassic.

[Swyft]

Originally Posted by Faerie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why did you bring up Fansy? The "bardburn" bug he abused in RV needed the charmed NPC to stay in agro range of PoD. Running doesn't really come into play there.



Sounds like we're both talking about balance. In an ideal world, Highsun and AE nuke range would both be fixed. Bards would not be made useless if they were fixed first, though. Stop with the alarmist rhetoric.



NPCs don't have to stay charmed for you to pull them around zones. And it really shouldn't be simple for a bard to charm something for use in pvp, considering they have tools like Selo's, the ability to cast while moving, mez, snare, and a 3 second cast time charm. I think maybe even if this song lasted up to 1 minute in classic, it should remain 18 seconds here. With an enchanter you can dispell their charm and it quickly becomes an ordeal for them to get control of things again, but with a bard the process of re-charming is much simpler.



I haven't really seen many bards here, but each time I did in a 1v1 setting they locked me down with mez or stuns and had no need to charm. Why risk training yourself when you'll win regardless?

/pet attack range should be longer, but this is a pve and pvp change, and affects all pet classes.

EDIT: The more I think about it, the more I think you're right about 39 charm always being 1 minute in classic. I don't care enough to look for proof because it doesn't really change the effectiveness of the spell much at all in practice (even for PvE), but I bet if you could find clear evidence of it and write up a bug report without insulting him, nilbog would change it.

Fansy used his faction in RV for rogue trainer but he trained with Sand Giants in Oasis all the time.
[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Here's a photo of it

I had to port into RV atleast 3 times a day to kill Fansy with my DE wizard Syft, he'd whine to me in tell's I was a hacker when I cold rooted him with

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...tml?spell=2554

lol after the root landed one sols icy spear killed him everytime.

P.S. why do you change my words around I said they'd be useless if you left Pillar's and Druid lightning unlimited range, that's not alarmist that's a fact Bard's rely on kiting in pvp without high sun you give people unlimited range spells and might as well delete the class from pvp that's just a fact. Bard's will also be a lot weaker when players can DUCK with spells and i'd like to see that added as well like it was in vellious. Timing your spells is HUGE vs Bards in pvp and you cant do that when you can't duck/cancel spellcasting.

But basically your for nerfing highsun but against giving them anything else they had in live lol. I'm for everything classic but not adding selo's breaking snare root yea I can see why they'd leave that out but nerfing the chants/nukes no way they land like shit and do little dmg as it is.