Discussion: PvP Deaths (Item/Coin/XP Loot/Gain)

[Galacticus]

Nope.

[Bockscar]

You just have no arguments, seriously.

By exciting and competitive I don't mean constant PVP madness. I mean that when it happens it will be more intense and all 1 vs 1 kills will have meaning versus the majority of 1 vs 1 kills being some guy +8 levels throwing a mage pet and laughing to the bank.

It shouldn't take more than a third-grader's logic to realize that the +8lvl naked mage phenomenon will be vastly more common on a server where said scenario is likely to lead to said easymode mage also winning an item from the guy they effortlessly killed.

The only exception is Gloinz when he dominated that Gnome in crushbone, that was cool.

He ganked someone who had mobs on him. Don't know what's so cool about that, and more importantly, with itemloot this would become the kind of thing everyone specifically attempts to do, instead of first seeking the kind of PvP that's actually fun and takes some effort. Anyone can kill some guy who's got mobs on him.

If you are too afraid of item loot

That sentence alone proves that you have no real arguments. You really have to resort to that kind of flawed discussion technique?

than perhaps 1 random item from equipped items barring held things + range. This with a tighter pvp range means people have to pvp carefully.

Randomizing the item doesn't really change anything. In fact it probably leads to more repeat killings where someone just ganks the same guy over and over for hours until he logs off or the ganker finally gets to loot the item he wanted. The victim can choose to not play the game or not wear equipment.

When I'm grinding on beta I just cruise around and every once in a while some guy way higher level than me might kill me. I destroy my money and then jog out and get my corpse and keep grinding. Really cool.

It's the beta. There's usually less than a hundred players on and nobody is taking it seriously.

With 4 level range I know that everyone I can fight I can beat. Even if my opponent is a mage and I'm a warrior I just need 1 rooting class to root his pet and then we can easily take him out.

How is this relevant to itemloot?

As it is, you're better off going about your business until you reach your desired level and then go hunting.

If you can't enjoy PvP for the sake of PvP and must have the option of removing from your victim one of the two only measures of character progression (the other being levels) then you're probably not the kind of player the developers try to cater to. It also suggests that you've never been part of a healthy, populated PvP server where the act of PvP and the rights to the content you win is more than enough reward. If PvP itself is not enough, you just don't have a place in the design of a PvP server.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by Bockscar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't know what's so cool about that

Confirmed blue.

The gear you would bag in an item loot setting at low levels has little to no effect on the outcome of a fight vs a caster. Oh noes I have to fight a mage naked rather than have another 7ac, how can I possibly win now.

Resist gear should have to be risked at higher levels for the advantage that it gives. Give it a couple of months and we'll see the tears threads about people getting stomped by players with full resist gear and how resists need to be changed etc.

[Softcore PK]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Confirmed blue.

No, killing people while they are engaged with npcs is not cool at all. Should be frowned upon.

[Nirgon]

It's called opportunity son. That's how it goes in the strug. He should be applauded for his game sense.

Originally Posted by Softcore PK [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Should be frowned upon.

Not cool, they attacked us right as we pulled Trakanon!

[Softcore PK]

It's gonna scare all the bluebies away if people play like that.

[Nirgon]

There's worse things than that. How about the top guild controlling Sebilis who will attack any player not in their guild? I'd trade getting ganked a couple handfuls of times in east commons for that, bud. The low levels are just the tip of the iceberg. You have to have a thick skin on you and a shit load of free time.

Frustration is a function of expectation. Know that you will be griefed through low levels and may not ever see the raid targets you saw on blue.

If you're rolling here with the expectation of running the show, stomping everyone and it is an outrage if you ever die or can't take over a camp, you're going to have a stroke.

[Softcore PK]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's worse things than that. How about the top guild controlling Sebilis who will attack any player not in their guild? I'd trade getting ganked a couple handfuls of times in east commons for that, bud. The low levels are just the tip of the iceberg. You have to have a thick skin on you and a shit load of free time.

Frustration is a function of expectation. Know that you will be griefed through low levels and may not ever see the raid targets you saw on blue.

If you're rolling here with the expectation of running the show, stomping everyone and it is an outrage if you ever die or can't take over a camp, you're going to have a stroke.

Sebilis is end game, anyone getting ganked there will have put up with their share of grief already. Seriously, if you want to get a bluebie to quit all you have to do is attack them while they're fighting an npc or two and accidentally (or not) cause a pve exp death. We need these bluebies if we're to have much of a server; just because you're a hardcore player that knows to put up with shit like serious exp loss does not mean everyone else should be.

[Bockscar]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's worse things than that. How about the top guild controlling Sebilis who will attack any player not in their guild? I'd trade getting ganked a couple handfuls of times in east commons for that, bud. The low levels are just the tip of the iceberg. You have to have a thick skin on you and a shit load of free time.

That can happen either way, and it'll be worse with itemloot because that top guild is then also routinely looting the gear of those who have less.

The ultimate point is that itemloot has only one single true merit: it makes the outcome of a fight more meaningful. That isn't worth more than the dozens of negative elements that are brought along by itemloot. On top of that, the most important fact is that the majority is against it and history proves how poorly it has worked when attempted and how every game worth mentioning since EQ has stayed the hell away from it.

Itemloot discourages the things that a PvP server benefits from (frequent PvP, better fights because people don't PvP naked or spend most of the time bagging shit, class balance that hinges solely on being able to wear gear) and encourages the things that are detrimental to a PvP server (unprovoked griefing, greater incentive to cheat and exploit, chasing away new players, poor class balance due to skewed itemization, and over-abundance of easymode classes).

Either way, it's pointless to discuss anymore because it isn't being implemented, Rogean has already said that this server isn't being made for the kind of player who prefers itemloot, and if they ever do decide to try some form of it then it'll be a lesser form that doesn't fuck the server up the way traditional itemloot has been proven to do.

[genrah]

All this talk about item loot not working? Complete BS and clearly these folks didnt play on Rallos Zek in its heyday.

-item loot worked fine on Rallos Zek until LDON augs made everything no drop
-adds an element to the game and true death penalty
-adds to the market, as pk'd good find their way the auction blocks
-encourages pvp with added incentives for doing so

How about a happy medium of item loot within 4 lvl range but keep the 8 lvl range for who can attack who?

Item loot should be in this server if you really want something unique. This coming from a wizard who use to solo or small group pvp my entire time on Rallos Zek. You guys are real blue if you cry about this being to harsh on red.

Exp death that can be regained in a few kills and losing some copper is hardly a death penalty imo. Its called a red server guys... not pink.

-g