Was xp loss in pvp a good idea?

[Potus]

Originally Posted by Softcore PK [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The xp loss is sooo minor. It really only stings if you get killed a bunch of times in a row..

Like...in a typical pvp setting? You know large guild battles have lots of deaths right?

[Lovely]

Went way to fast to 50. -100% exp modifier on the next server please

[VanEyck]

Originally Posted by Softcore PK [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You of all people should like the exp loss, it encourages lns and honorable play.

Thank you for that compliment. I have the same issues with bind rushing that you do. Discouraging bind rushing is a good idea, but I don't see why it has to involve my precious hybrid exp bar. If someone dies in PVP, they should be forced to take a time out to med before they can attack again. This is a better deterrent to bind rushing than exp loss, because in a raid or camp situation exp always takes a back seat to winning control of the content. Time wasted now in a clutch battle is always more significant than time wasted later. Once the upper hand has been achieved it will be easier to hold on to if you are allowed the same recovery time as your opponents are.

Originally Posted by Lovely [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Went way to fast to 50. -100% exp modifier on the next server please

Nice. Have anything to add regarding the topic of this thread?

[Softcore PK]

Originally Posted by VanEyck [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thank you for that compliment. I have the same issues with bind rushing that you do. Discouraging bind rushing is a good idea, but I don't see why it has to involve my precious hybrid exp bar. If someone dies in PVP, they should be forced to take a time out to med before they can attack again. This is a better deterrent to bind rushing than exp loss, because in a raid or camp situation exp always takes a back seat to winning control of the content. Time wasted now in a clutch battle is always more significant than time wasted later. Once the upper hand has been achieved it will be easier to hold on to if you are allowed the same recovery time as your opponents are.

I have a lot of respect for you and yours [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It really is unfair that players such as yourself have to suffer because of the actions of others. But without this xp loss, there would be a lot more bindrushing. This thread, and the other players that are pushing for no exp loss, are proof enough of that. And your solution of making them respawn at bind with no mana would help things, but 5-10 minutes of recovery time between each bindrush is not enough to stop these people from griefing. Even with the xp penalty in place it is a problem, but after 2-3 attempts they all seem to stop.

When you're at a camp with a fast respawn time that needs to be kept clear and timed, it does not take much at all for a player to disrupt a group. Even with the advantages of them being naked and needing to med, they will keep coming back. And with no deterrent to them for doing so, a lot of them WILL keep coming back until they manage a "win" by catching you at a very bad time.

Really it comes down to deciding if you want to put up with slight exp loss, or more wiped groups from more griefers. I feel that the xp loss is preferable, as this approach penalizes the bad guys more than it does the rest of us. Bindrushers will (and do, just ask Holocaust) lose more xp in pvp than people who honor lns. Without the xp loss, the griefers are given an advantage over the honorable players. Since they don't lose anything for dying over and over, they will do it until you lose. And since you're the good guys, you won't do the same to their camps in return.

Or even worse, you do end up going after them with the same tactics they use on you. Then everyone loses.

[VanEyck]

Pvp server with penalty for pvp is a contradiction.

If bind rushing is the reason then mana = 0 on respawn.

[Lazortag]

I sometimes wonder what would happen if you guys tried to put yourselves in the devs' shoes for a day. Here we have a thread where a lot of people say there should be no exp loss in pvp. Yet here we have a thread where everyone says that the exp loss in pvp isn't enough. So basically the exp loss is right between where most of the community wants it, a happy middle ground. Who do you expect the devs to agree with exactly? It's easier to just keep things how they are.

[oldfish]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I sometimes wonder what would happen if you guys tried to put yourselves in the devs' shoes for a day. Here we have a thread where a lot of people say there should be no exp loss in pvp. Yet here we have a thread where everyone says that the exp loss in pvp isn't enough. So basically the exp loss is right between where most of the community wants it, a happy middle ground. Who do you expect the devs to agree with exactly? It's easier to just keep things how they are.

Or you make the correct decision, the one that will make the server grow vs the one that the niche of soopergriefers and pve poopsockers want that makes a population stagnate.

Anyway im throwing the towel, dont think it will ever change, time to move on.

Originally Posted by Softcore PK [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The xp loss is sooo minor. It really only stings if you get killed a bunch of times in a row.. like if you bindrush, or if someone is camping your bindpoint. If the blah grind of EQ isn't bad, why does a tiny tiny amount of xp loss from pvp upset you so much?

God softcore... you know, like when youre pvping? This is the problem right there, the devs are listening to these people, who dont like to pvp, and want a purple server so they can fight over whos gonna sit on a camp for 12 hours after 20mins of pvp.

[Softcore PK]

Originally Posted by oldfish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

God softcore... you know, like when youre pvping? This is the problem right there, the devs are listening to these people, who dont like to pvp, and want a purple server so they can fight over whos gonna sit on a camp for 12 hours after 20mins of pvp.

Well hang on, let's discuss this calmly and not resort to thinly veiled personal attacks. Wolfram brought up a good point: you can't please everyone!

What you're saying is that this xp loss discourages pvp, and I'm sure to some extent you're right. But for a lot of us, pvp was not dying to the same person/people over and over and over again just to be a bother. On live, when I died I lnsed. Dying wasn't something that happened several times a day, even as an elf purist who attacked everyone and everything in sight. And there did seem to be a lot of pvp happening.

My fear is that without this xp loss, pvp will lose a lot of its meaning and laughable griefer guilds like Holocaust will bindrush nonstop when they know they're beat, just to disrupt whatever their betters are doing. PvE is a huge part of this game whether you want it to be or not, and this xp loss seems almost necessary. Didn't VZTZ eventually have to have GM enforced lns because none of the guilds were able to accomplish anything due to bindrushng?

Originally Posted by VanEyck [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Classic RZ, VZ, and TZ had no pvp experience loss. Am I wrong?

This isn't classic, though. This community does have a lot of the mean players, and not many of the nice ones. On VZ, there were player enforced rules that everyone followed. Here, the community at large could care less about the niceties we all used to abide. In a way we kind of ruined it for ourselves, and now we're being penalized for not making efforts to play nice and respect one another.

You of all people should like the exp loss, it encourages lns and honorable play.

Originally Posted by Potus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Like...in a typical pvp setting? You know large guild battles have lots of deaths right?

Right, the more players involved the more deaths there will be. But people should understand that once they are dead, they are dead and they should leave the fight. Since people don't understand or agree with this, we are forced into a system where we all have to hurt more for our deaths. And it's a very smart idea, like a sliding scale.

Die once and lns? Small penalty. Die and bindrush a couple times? Bigger penalty. Become well-known as a bindrusher that refuses to lns everytime and are CCed without a second thought by everyone that kills you? Huge penalty.

[Potus]

Originally Posted by Softcore PK [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This isn't classic, though.

Sweet, get rid of the stupid grinding then. I look forward to 2x current exp rate and a removal of stupid crap like race/class exp penalties which never made sense and were always brought up in community discussions involving Abashi.

Right, the more players involved the more deaths there will be. But people should understand that once they are dead, they are dead and they should leave the fight. Since people don't understand or agree with this, we are forced into a system where we all have to hurt more for our deaths. And it's a very smart idea, like a sliding scale.

Die once and lns? Small penalty. Die and bindrush a couple times? Bigger penalty. Become well-known as a bindrusher that refuses to lns everytime and are CCed without a second thought by everyone that kills you? Huge penalty.

"Sorry guys, I'm dead, can't help us contest Trakanon, don't want to lose hours of exp and delevel to 59!" <---this is seriously what you're advocating on a PVP SERVER.

[Softcore PK]

Originally Posted by VanEyck [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pvp server with penalty for pvp is a contradiction.

If bind rushing is the reason then mana = 0 on respawn.

There's no penalty for partaking in pvp, there's a penalty for dying. As there always has been :P