Game Mechanics: Initial Aggro/Hatelist Missle Lock

[Heebo]

Bump. Code was added that allowed rooted mobs to add bystanders to their aggro list.

This was a step in the right direction but this should occur with all mobs, regardless of being rooted or not.

Mobs aggroing on sitting players was added as well but it doesn't fix the actual issue at hand. ALL KOS PLAYERS should be added to the aggro list if they are in aggro range. The mob should then prioritize attacking the sitting players unless significant hate had been generated.

This is also the underlying issue with swarm kiting and why trains are MUCH less dangerous on p99 than they were on live.

[Daldaen]

Uhh I'm skeptical of what you're proposing.

Sitting - Yes
If you're fighting a mob social with the train - Yes

A random dude standing near a train that runs over him with absolutely no action made against it - No

I don't believe in that last circumstance you should be added to the hatelist on the train. You had to be sitting or be fighting a mob nearby to get added I believe.

[Nibblewitz]

Is there any definitive proof of classic "pure-proximity" aggro? Currently on p99, it seems that the only way to get proximity aggro on an engaged mob is to get the closest to it while rooted, casting a spell within its proximity, or sitting down within its proximity.

[Heebo]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Uhh I'm skeptical of what you're proposing.

Sitting - Yes
If you're fighting a mob social with the train - Yes

A random dude standing near a train that runs over him with absolutely no action made against it - No

I don't believe in that last circumstance you should be added to the hatelist on the train. You had to be sitting or be fighting a mob nearby to get added I believe.

Wrong. If the person training had no further hate into a mob than proximity aggro and ran it next to you, you were getting whacked due to being within melee range. That's how it always worked. People training didn't only kill sitting people.

Furthermore, this is the crux of swarm kiting. If you charmed a mob in a train and sent it after the pack, the entire pack would assist because of

1. Instant proximity aggro and
2. The action of attacking the mob generating more hate than the bard has (which is only proximity aggro)

[Heebo]

Originally Posted by Nibblewitz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is there any definitive proof of classic "pure-proximity" aggro? Currently on p99, it seems that the only way to get proximity aggro on an engaged mob is to get the closest to it while rooted, casting a spell within its proximity, or sitting down within its proximity.

Anybody who played live could tell you that you couldn't run straight through a train of mobs and get by Scott free because they were aggrod. If the trainer had more hate than proximity aggro, they would continue chasing him but if he zoned out or FDd, you could bet on them returning.

[Daldaen]

No, you misunderstand swarm kiting.

The reason swarm kiting exists is because of the 2nd situation I cite. Fighting a mob on the train's faction, near the train. That is why swarm kiting works.

When you charmed a mob, and sent it on the swarm, the swarm didn't care about your pet running at them, nor did the swarm immediately turn on your pet after it is charmed. The swarm ONLY turned on your pet once it aggros and attacks a mob in the train. Once it attacks a single mob, because it is near the others and fighting a mob on the same faction as the train, the rest of the train turns and fights your pet. That's how proxy aggro worked. That can certainly give the illusion of that you get on aggro from a train from just standing there, but the reality is you only got on aggro because you were fighting a mob within the assist radius of the train.

Your pet is not on the aggro list of the swarm until it attacks one of them. Under what you are suggesting it would be on aggro from the swarm.

Log on live right now that's exactly how it works and that's exactly how it used to work and should work here.

That is completely different from being put on aggro list for just standing there though.

[Daldaen]

What you're suggesting isn't classic. And there are far more reasons than this that VP training is what it is.

Running through a mob should not put you on its aggro list. It is otherwise occupied and should not add you. Infact the rooted thing I'm also skeptical about, but this kind of stuff is nearly impossible to gather evidence on.

I can tell you for a fact, this was not in play on Al'Kabor a year ago which had the closest thing to classic aggro code we could've had. Running through many swarms and shaker page pulls with a toon I never once picked up aggro on it if the pull failed. They reset as you would expect.

[Heebo]

I don't know about live now and I don't care. That's how it worked on live through POP. Read the other posts in this thread. I don't understand how you could even question it.

If you spent any time training people you would know that you didn't have to wait for them to sit or attack a mob.

If you spent any time swarm kite Pling, you would know that your group had to be OUT OF AGGRO RANGE or they'd get wrecked. I couldn't count the times somebody would run in to try and loot a corpse and get steamrolled.

[Heebo]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What you're suggesting isn't classic. And there are far more reasons than this that VP training is what it is.

Running through a mob should not put you on its aggro list. It is otherwise occupied and should not add you. Infact the rooted thing I'm also skeptical about, but this kind of stuff is nearly impossible to gather evidence on.

I can tell you for a fact, this was not in play on Al'Kabor a year ago which had the closest thing to classic aggro code we could've had. Running through many swarms and shaker page pulls with a toon I never once picked up aggro on it if the pull failed. They reset as you would expect.

What do you mean that you didn't pick up aggro if the pull failed?

[Heebo]

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January 31, 2001 3:00 am
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--- We've also re-evaluated ways that players have to reduce their own
hate. While spells in place to allow this are OK, the Evade skill
(possessed by rogues) let them out of their damage too easily. A rogue
that successfully evaded would immediately drop to a level of hate
lower than someone who was in the awareness range, but hadn't done
anything to really upset the creature such as damage it or heal its
foe. This problem was exacerbated by the increase of the size of the
hate list implemented with Velious.

I mean, this literally shows you that being in proximity but doing no offensive action to a KOS mob would put you on the hate list.