Sleeper being awoken tonight (April 13th)

[Tethler]

Originally Posted by Phraxas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Every single one of them were pixel hungry?? Let god take the wheel if every single person who left kingdom to join ST were just pixel hungry loot whores…

Maybe not every person, sure. But I'd bet every dollar to my name that pixels is a primary motivator for the majority of people jumping ship for the top guild.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Tethler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe not every person, sure. But I'd bet every dollar to my name that pixels is a primary motivator for the majority of people jumping ship for the top guild.

Honestly though, whats the problem with that? Gaining loot is one of the primary mechanics of the game, and small guilds cannot get high end loot. Its a great way to get the items you want.

[Phraxas]

Originally Posted by Tethler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe not every person, sure. But I'd bet every dollar to my name that pixels is a primary motivator for the majority of people jumping ship for the top guild.

now just think back to all the people that have told you, Seal team is toxic. think real hard....

All those people, how many were ex-Seal Team that left and joined Kingdom...

point will be proven lol

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Phraxas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

now just think back to all the people that have told you, Seal team is toxic. think real hard....

All those people, how many were ex-Seal Team that left and joined Kingdom...

point will be proven lol

I never joined kingdom and seal team is definitely toxic lol

[Elizondo]

Originally Posted by Phraxas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Propaganda? Please the Federation Zerg, and Kingdom has been using propaganda for years against Seal Team. And it only works within their ranks.

Ever ask yourself for all the self propaganda being spewed by Kingdom leadership, all these people who got smart and see past it, they left kingdom and other guilds right? How many that left applied to ST, joined ST, how many went back to kingdom and was like wow y’all were right… Seal Team is toxic… I’ll wait…

Now count how many left kingdom, joined seal team, and is still with seal team… yea propaganda it’s a hell of a drug when used blindly…

People flock to where the best loot is. It's been that way since Live.

I've never said ST is "toxic'. You have me confused with someone else. I really don't care about ST. I don't care about Kingdom. My perspective of anyone playing the game that hardcore within this era of EQ's life cycle is pity. We're not kids anymore.

The old school raiders on Blue were much more savvy at image messaging than this current crop of people on Green. They embraced their hatred of anyone that would challenge them. They weren't afraid of being hated. They relished in it. They didn't play victim and whine or make pathetic excuses in an effort to convince people not to be mad at them. They wanted to be the villain and there is nothing wrong with that. They enjoyed being bad. Servers need a villain. It motivates competition.

Seal Team's problem is they are trying to straddle the fence between trying to be the server's hero and villain. It just hasn't worked. I think waking the sleeper wasn't calculated. It was a compulsive, rushed decision. It was a reaction to a perceived threat that could no longer be ignored. The fact that a vote even had to be taken says a lot. There wasn't even consensus within your own ranks. That builds resentment that may fester over time. We'll see.

When Rampage did it, it was a big middle finger to everyone. It was at the time that took place, a going away present. They took a dump on the entire community and lit it on fire and enjoyed every minute of it. If you're going to do it, that's the way to do it.

What annoys me are the attempts at shaping the narrative with a bunch of political BS in an attempt to gas light people on the forums. I understand why. I get it. It's because Seal Team still has to play here with everyone. You still have to share the same box with an entire server that now hates you for what you did. So how to try and raise your sagging poll numbers?

Let's go over the talking points in this thread alone thus far that are beyond absurd and fooling no one:

Players choosing to trigger an event that has no timer is a timer

Triggering Sleeper is like the devs removing manastone

If you're mad at Seal Team you should be mad at server staff too. They created the server. It's their fault

Be mad at your yourself

We shouldn't focus on choice

Be mad at Kingdom

Not triggering Sleeper denied essence lens or whatever

Kingdom may have cheesed a few keys. It's their fault.

There are so many more I've seen in other threads and the list keeps growing. We've all seen this dog and pony show play out time after time after time after time as guilds compete for bragging rights over loot.

Sifting through the Aftermath (pun intended) my personal take is instead of giving the entire server the middle finger like Rampage did, Seal Team chose to give Kingdom the middle finger and are now trying to shift blame when you should have went all in, guns blazing and embraced your now earned status as server villain.

Trying to pull the wool over people's eyes pretending you're still the heroes is only going to make everyone hate you even more. Why fight it? Just embrace it. You might enjoy being the villain and there is nothing wrong with that.

Attachment 17474

[Phraxas]

Sure got a lot to say for people you pity buddy.

If you don’t care about hardcore gaming in EQ in 2022. If you don’t care about Seal Team, if you don’t care about Kingdom. Then why are you posting anything about the event, said it yourself you don’t care so you were ever going to be in the tomb…

Sounds like you liked the sirken era… well that just isn’t p99 anymore my friend embrace the new political side of p99 or continue to make really long post about people you pity and don’t care about I guess

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Elizondo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People flock to where the best loot is. It's been that way since Live.

I've never said ST is "toxic'. You have me confused with someone else. I really don't care about ST. I don't care about Kingdom. My perspective of anyone playing the game that hardcore within this era of EQ's life cycle is pity. We're not kids anymore.

The old school raiders on Blue were much more savvy at image messaging than this current crop of people on Green. They embraced their hatred of anyone that would challenge them. They weren't afraid of being hated. They relished in it. They didn't play victim and whine or make pathetic excuses in an effort to convince people not to be mad at them. They wanted to be the villain and there is nothing wrong with that. They enjoyed being bad. Servers need a villain. It motivates competition.

Seal Team's problem is they are trying to straddle the fence between trying to be the server's hero and villain. It just hasn't worked. I think waking the sleeper wasn't calculated. It was a compulsive, rushed decision. It was a reaction to a perceived threat that could no longer be ignored. The fact that a vote even had to be taken says a lot. There wasn't even consensus within your own ranks. That builds resentment that may fester over time. We'll see.

When Rampage did it, it was a big middle finger to everyone. It was at the time that took place, a going away present. They took a dump on the entire community and lit it on fire and enjoyed every minute of it. If you're going to do it, that's the way to do it.

What annoys me are the attempts at shaping the narrative with a bunch of political BS in an attempt to gas light people on the forums. I understand why. I get it. It's because Seal Team still has to play here with everyone. You still have to share the same box with an entire server that now hates you for what you did. So how to try and raise your sagging poll numbers?

Let's go over the talking points in this thread alone thus far that are beyond absurd and fooling no one:

Players choosing to trigger an event that has no timer is a timer

Triggering Sleeper is like the devs removing manastone

If you're mad at Seal Team you should be mad at server staff too. They created the server. It's their fault

Be mad at your yourself

We shouldn't focus on choice

Be mad at Kingdom

Not triggering Sleeper denied essence lens or whatever

Kingdom may have cheesed a few keys. It's their fault.

There are so many more I've seen in other threads and the list keeps growing. We've all seen this dog and pony show play out time after time after time after time as guilds compete for bragging rights over loot.

Sifting through the Aftermath (pun intended) my personal take is instead of giving the entire server the middle finger like Rampage did, Seal Team chose to give Kingdom the middle finger and are now trying to shift blame when you should have went all in, guns blazing and embraced your now earned status as server villain.

Trying to pull the wool over people's eyes pretending you're still the heroes is only going to make everyone hate you even more. Why fight it? Just embrace it. You might enjoy being the villain and there is nothing wrong with that.

Attachment 17474

Hey you actually posted something! Looks like you might be ready to end your trolling phase.

You have gotten a lot of these points wrong, or don't understand them. This is why you aren't making progress in this thread. Either you aren't reading, or you just like making up straw men to try and win arguments. In both cases, you are having problems. The post history is clear, so you can easily go back and read things more clearly if you wished to. As you mentioned earlier you are too lazy to do so, so please refrain from posting falsehoods if you can't be bothered to read.

You have a very strange idea that everybody here who disagrees with you is some kind of secret agent for Seal Team trying to create propaganda or something. People can have their opinions about Sleeper and Seal Team without being a propogandist for Seal Team. I have never claimed Seal Team is a hero, for example, so I am not sure why this is your assumption. I am simply defending their right to play the game as intended. There is no problem with that, and it is not propaganda. However Seal Team wants to craft their image is honestly irrelevant to Sleeper. They could be the best heroes or the worst villains, but awaking Sleeper is still a neutral act.

Now, to your current "understanding" of the thread and topic in general:

1. Players choosing to trigger an event that has no timer is a timer - You don't seem to understand analogies, which is why you are failing to comprehend this point (assuming you aren't trolling). Sleeper is not like regular mobs in the game, which are permanent as long as the server is active. Like Manastone, Sleeper is flagged to be permanently removed. Manastone is flagged as a fixed timer, Sleeper is flagged as a timer by vote. Players vote to keep him Sleeping by not killing him. The analogy is really that simple. There is no reason to try and score points by claiming on a technical level, they didn't program it as a timer. That is irrelevant to the analogy, and not a point I was ever making to begin with. I am not sure why it is difficult to understand both Manastone and Sleeper are designed to be removed on P99.

2. Triggering Sleeper is like the devs removing manastone - Correct. As stated above, both Manastone and Sleeper are intended to be removed from the game at some point. If they weren't, they wouldn't work this way. Unless you are claiming it is a bug of some kind?

3. If you're mad at Seal Team you should be mad at server staff too. They created the server. It's their fault - No one said this. This is your straw man version of my previous points. The point is you can't accuse one party of loot denial without accusing the other party of loot denial. It is logically inconsistent to blame Seal Team and not blame the Staff. However, that is NOT me saying you should be mad at the Staff. Don't be mad at the Staff or Seal Team lol, the game is working as intended. I am showing the logical fallacy of thinking you can blame Seal Team of "loot denial", without realizing Manastone is also removed from the game by the Staff. The Staff is not "spitefully loot denying" players, they are simply removing Manastone to simulate the timeline. Similarly, Seal Team is playing the game as intended by the Staff, and are forwarding the simulated timeline. Even assuming Seal Team had the evilest intentions possible, that has no relevance to the Sleeper mechanic. You cannot spitefully play the game by the rules, as intended by the Staff. It is a neutral act, regardless of intentions. Unless you are claiming the cheated or broke the rules somehow?

4. We shouldn't focus on choice - A poor understanding of what I said, yet again. The point I was making was that most players will choose to wake the Sleeper, so you are using the possibility that he remains Sleeping to try and frame the argument like there is a high probability of keeping the Sleeper sleeping. That is not a great argument, as no data shows keeping the Sleeper sleeping is the more common choice. Just because something has a 1% chance of happening, doesn't mean you should expect it to happen. The Staff could certainly bring back Manastone into the drop table at any time. Nothing is preventing this from happening. But I wouldn't argue the slim possibility of this happening means that it's going to happen, or should happen. Similarly, the arguments about choice falsely assume only Seal Team had the choice to wake the Sleeper. As more guilds/players get keyed, the ability to choose decreases.

5. Be mad at your yourself - Correct. Everybody knew the Sleeper would be awoken on Green. It has been known for years. If you failed to gather any information on the Sleeper, or get your character in a position to get Warder loot, you are the only one to blame. Everquest is a game where there is no second place. Either you get the item or you don't. Knowing about limited time content means you need to get busy and get it, or miss out. Blaming others because you didn't put in the work is just silly.

6. Not triggering Sleeper denied essence lens or whatever - Correct. Loot denial is simply the act of preventing players from getting loot. In the case of Sleeper, you are denying loot in either state. If Sleeper remains Sleeping, players cannot get Essence Lens. If Sleeper is awoken, players cannot get Warder loot. It is really that simple, loot denial is not some complex subject matter, it is binary. Either loot is available or it isn't. Anybody who supports keeping the Sleeper sleeping is supporting denying Essence Lens. The only reason why people don't want to think this way is because they don't want to be the bad guys, so they frame the argument as somehow only waking the Sleeper counts as Loot Denial. It is the same fallacy they use to try and claim Seal Team is somehow denying loot, but removing Manastone is somehow different.

7. Be mad at Kingdom - I haven't made this point, or know the history of Kingdom, so I won't comment further.

8. Kingdom may have cheesed a few keys. It's their fault. - I haven't made this point, or know the history of Kingdom, so I won't comment further.

[Reiwa]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hey you actually posted something! Looks like you might be ready to end your trolling phase.

You have gotten a lot of these points wrong, or don't understand them. This is why you aren't making progress in this thread. Either you aren't reading, or you just like making up straw men to try and win arguments. In both cases, you are having problems. The post history is clear, so you can easily go back and read things more clearly if you wished to. As you mentioned earlier you are too lazy to do so, so please refrain from posting falsehoods if you can't be bothered to read.

You have a very strange idea that everybody here who disagrees with you is some kind of secret agent for Seal Team trying to create propaganda or something. People can have their opinions about Sleeper and Seal Team without being a propogandist for Seal Team. I have never claimed Seal Team is a hero, for example, so I am not sure why this is your assumption. I am simply defending their right to play the game as intended. There is no problem with that, and it is not propaganda. However Seal Team wants to craft their image is honestly irrelevant to Sleeper. They could be the best heroes or the worst villains, but awaking Sleeper is still a neutral act.

Now, to your current "understanding" of the thread and topic in general:

1. Players choosing to trigger an event that has no timer is a timer - You don't seem to understand analogies, which is why you are failing to comprehend this point (assuming you aren't trolling). Sleeper is not like regular mobs in the game, which are permanent as long as the server is active. Like Manastone, Sleeper is flagged to be permanently removed. Manastone is flagged as a fixed timer, Sleeper is flagged as a timer by vote. Players vote to keep him Sleeping by not killing him. The analogy is really that simple. There is no reason to try and score points by claiming on a technical level, they didn't program it as a timer. That is irrelevant to the analogy, and not a point I was ever making to begin with. I am not sure why it is difficult to understand both Manastone and Sleeper are designed to be removed on P99.

2. Triggering Sleeper is like the devs removing manastone - Correct. As stated above, both Manastone and Sleeper are intended to be removed from the game at some point. If they weren't, they wouldn't work this way. Unless you are claiming it is a bug of some kind?

3. If you're mad at Seal Team you should be mad at server staff too. They created the server. It's their fault - No one said this. This is your straw man version of my previous points. The point is you can't accuse one party of loot denial without accusing the other party of loot denial. It is logically inconsistent to blame Seal Team and not blame the Staff. However, that is NOT me saying you should be mad at the Staff. Don't be mad at the Staff or Seal Team lol, the game is working as intended. I am showing the logical fallacy of thinking you can blame Seal Team of "loot denial", without realizing Manastone is also removed from the game by the Staff. The Staff is not "spitefully loot denying" players, they are simply removing Manastone to simulate the timeline. Similarly, Seal Team is playing the game as intended by the Staff, and are forwarding the simulated timeline. Even assuming Seal Team had the evilest intentions possible, that has no relevance to the Sleeper mechanic. You cannot spitefully play the game by the rules, as intended by the Staff. It is a neutral act, regardless of intentions. Unless you are claiming the cheated or broke the rules somehow?

4. We shouldn't focus on choice - A poor understanding of what I said, yet again. The point I was making was that most players will choose to wake the Sleeper, so you are using the possibility that he remains Sleeping to try and frame the argument like there is a high probability of keeping the Sleeper sleeping. That is not a great argument, as no data shows keeping the Sleeper sleeping is the more common choice. Just because something has a 1% chance of happening, doesn't mean you should expect it to happen. The Staff could certainly bring back Manastone into the drop table at any time. Nothing is preventing this from happening. But I wouldn't argue the slim possibility of this happening means that it's going to happen, or should happen. Similarly, the arguments about choice falsely assume only Seal Team had the choice to wake the Sleeper. As more guilds/players get keyed, the ability to choose decreases.

5. Be mad at your yourself - Correct. Everybody knew the Sleeper would be awoken on Green. It has been known for years. If you failed to gather any information on the Sleeper, or get your character in a position to get Warder loot, you are the only one to blame. Everquest is a game where there is no second place. Either you get the item or you don't. Knowing about limited time content means you need to get busy and get it, or miss out. Blaming others because you didn't put in the work is just silly.

6. Not triggering Sleeper denied essence lens or whatever - Correct. Loot denial is simply the act of preventing players from getting loot. In the case of Sleeper, you are denying loot in either state. If Sleeper remains Sleeping, players cannot get Essence Lens. If Sleeper is awoken, players cannot get Warder loot. It is really that simple, loot denial is not some complex subject matter, it is binary. Either loot is available or it isn't. Anybody who supports keeping the Sleeper sleeping is supporting denying Essence Lens. The only reason why people don't want to think this way is because they don't want to be the bad guys, so they frame the argument as somehow only waking the Sleeper counts as Loot Denial. It is the same fallacy they use to try and claim Seal Team is somehow denying loot, but removing Manastone is somehow different.

7. Be mad at Kingdom - I haven't made this point, or know the history of Kingdom, so I won't comment further.

8. Kingdom may have cheesed a few keys. It's their fault. - I haven't made this point, or know the history of Kingdom, so I won't comment further.

Are you aware of the incongruence between your timer theory and your essence lens malarkey?

Hypocrite. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Reiwa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you aware of the incongruence between your timer theory and your essence lens malarkey?

Hypocrite. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

what is hypocritical or incongruent? Saying big words is meaningless lol. Please explain, or you are just being silly.

[Reiwa]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

what is hypocritical or incongruent? Saying big words is meaningless lol. Please explain, or you are just being silly.

Players who didn't want essence lens to be available are now forced to have it be available. Because of Seal Team's choice, not the timeline created by the staff.