sk starting points

[Lune]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You do realize that you can start at 100% mana before you kill multiple mobs, right? You will use that extra mana during the period between killing mobs and meditating.

If you aren't starting a fight with max mana, any additional mana from INT is irrelevant. So that extra mana from INT is doing nothing to help you survive FD fails or any other situation if you aren't 100% mana. You're getting lost again. You can get through more kills before reaching a certain threshold of mana, but by not meditating to full before something difficult, you're squandering the supposed benefits of INT.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When you are soloing, you are not always killing a single mob, meditating back to full, and then killing another mob. You can also kill multiple mobs before you meditate. This means you are not going to be a 100% mana all the time.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you aren't starting a fight with max mana, any additional mana from INT is irrelevant. So that extra mana from INT is doing nothing to help you survive FD fails or any other situation if you aren't 100% mana. You're getting lost again.

Let me put this another way. You seem very fond of trying to find specific scenarios in which you can prove INT does nothing.

I can also provide specific scenarios in which a bit of extra DPS provides nothing. People enjoy the semi-AFK killing of single static respawn mobs.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Travis_Two_Tone according to the wiki he has 875 HP, and respawns every 6 minutes, 40 seconds.

If you are doing 30 DP, you will kill him in 29.1 seconds. This means it takes 429.1 seconds per respawn and kill. 3600 / 429.1 = ~8.4 kills per hour.

If you are doing 31 DP, you will kill him in 28.2 seconds. This means it takes 428.2 seconds per respawn and kill. 3600 / 428.2 = ~8.4 kills per hour.

You would need to kill him for 53 hours straight to get an extra kill lol. This means no breaks in between. You lose your progress if you stop. Extra DPS is not always increasing kills per hour. The 1 kill per hour estimate I gave is assuming you are going balls to the wall in terms of your killing process.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Three things:

1. Thank you for the link to the code, that will be helpful
2. You didn't answer any of my questions
3. If my starting stat allocations results in one extra kill per hour, I'd be overjoyed. How many extra kills per hour will 20 int provide?

My own answers:
I'm expecting a uniform distribution of 20 unique hit values on an even-con mob. On a significantly lower-leveled mob, I'd expect the distribution to skew higher. I expect a similar increase across the entire distribution with added strength, and I also expect the distribution to skew very slightly higher, probably well within the realm of statistical noise for a sample of this size.

The 20 di thing looks to get a bit more complicated as you get higher level / higher str.

[Lune]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let me put this another way. You seem very fond of trying to find specific scenarios in which you can prove INT does nothing.

I can also provide specific scenarios in which a bit of extra DPS provides nothing. People enjoy the semi-AFK killing of single static respawn mobs.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Travis_Two_Tone according to the wiki he has 875 HP, and respawns every 6 minutes, 40 seconds.

If you are doing 30 DP, you will kill him in 29.1 seconds. This means it takes 429.1 seconds per respawn and kill. 3600 / 429.1 = ~8.4 kills per hour.

If you are doing 31 DP, you will kill him in 28.2 seconds. This means it takes 428.2 seconds per respawn and kill. 3600 / 428.2 = ~8.4 kills per hour.

You would need to kill him for 53 hours straight to get an extra kill lol. Extra DPS is not always increasing kills per hour. The 1 kill per hour estimate I gave is assuming you are going balls to the wall in terms of your killing process.

Change the subject all you want, I have no interest in pursuing these flights of "reasoning" with you, I'm just pointing out flagrant contradictions and botched logic in your own successive posts. Note you did nothing to address what I just said, except handwaving it away with accusations... rather than engaging with the logic.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You seem very fond of trying to find specific scenarios in which you can prove INT does nothing.

That was your response to my post and my logic/knowledge, followed by you engaging in exactly what you falsely accuse me of. Note, what I pointed out is not a "specific scenario", it's a fundamental quality of the game.

[Troxx]

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[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Change the subject all you want, I have no interest in pursuing these flights of "reasoning" with you, I'm just pointing out flagrant contradictions and botched logic in your own successive posts. Note you did nothing to address what I just said, except handwaving it away with accusations... rather than engaging with the logic.

I am not changing the subject. I am providing an example of extra DPS from 20 STR doing nothing. You were providing examples of where INT was doing nothing, so I am not sure why you think you are the only one able to do it lol. DPS has diminishing returns in many different scenarios, it is also a fundamental quality of the game.

Your logic is flawed, because you are using specific examples of where INT may not do anything to proclaim that INT will always do nothing. My DPS example disproves your flawed logic easily, and stays on topic.

I am using math and logic to support my position, as well as personal experience from actually leveling an SK on P99 from 1-60.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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Glad to see someone remembers Rejected! Great short film.

[cotterpin]

I think at this point that if any newb sees a DSM thread they're super safe to do the opposite of what he suggests and they'll be good.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I provided the formulas so you can plug in the numbers. You can then come back with your findings. That will provide the answers to your questions.

Jeez dude, your attitude here is incredibly unhelpful. Proper data analysis requires starting with a hypothesis before running any calculations. And, like, I get it, you're being attacked and ganged up on, and it's human to feel defensive about that. But I had hoped I had demonstrated enough good faith that you would be willing to enage with me.

When I started preliminary analysis, I was expecting results consistent with the "damage interval" concept, which would involve 20 unique damage values, where the distribution across those values is a function of the relative attack and defense values. Out of ~240 hits, I found ~110 unique values, so my mental model is incorrect. I could type up a lot more about why it's important to do preliminary hypothesis checking like this, but I know you'd just disregard it.

Sorry bud, but I'm done with you.

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The 20 di thing looks to get a bit more complicated as you get higher level / higher str.

I'd really appreciate it if you (or anyone else) can explain the 20 di thing. The EQEmu code seems to use it:

auto roll = RollD20(hit.offense, mitigation);
hit.damage_done = max(roll * hit.base_damage + 0.5), 1);

I looked around and didn't see anything else in the codebase that would account for what I found in the log I examined. Would you expect exactly 20 unique hit values?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Jeez dude, your attitude here is incredibly unhelpful. Proper data analysis requires starting with a hypothesis before running any calculations. And, like, I get it, you're being attacked and ganged up on, and it's human to feel defensive about that. But I had hoped I had demonstrated enough good faith that you would be willing to enage with me.

When I started preliminary analysis, I was expecting results consistent with the "damage interval" concept, which would involve 20 unique damage values, where the distribution across those values is a function of the relative attack and defense values. Out of ~240 hits, I found ~110 unique values, so my mental model is incorrect. I could type up a lot more about why it's important to do preliminary hypothesis checking like this, but I know you'd just disregard it.

Sorry bud, but I'm done with you.

You are taking this wildly out of context. I am simply saying you can use the formulas and data to see what is going on. There is no need to add extra complexity and confusion at this point by answering your questions.

If you are doing this in good faith, you would not assume I am being mean to you in some manner. I honestly am not.

[Sizar]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A whole lot of random opinions and insults. Nobody has shown that the STR is giving enough DPS to matter. Therefore it remains unfounded opinions.

That is your guys problem. Lots of assumtions and insults lol.

He keeps saying people have insulted him, including me. All I said was he seems like the type of guy who needs to get the last word in even when he is wrong...that is an insult? Or stating an opinion, that is most likely correct