Taxes durring shut down?

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Greegon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

yeah if theres truly some really hard times coming will take a loaf of bread instead

Loaves of bread are not very durable.

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

what are you talking about?

It would seem that my sentences were very clear. I know you weren't saying we should use diamonds as currency, but as we were discussing the qualities of currency, I thought it was a good place to show why one shiny substance may be more desirable than another as a currency.

[Rhambuk]

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It would seem that my sentences were very clear. I know you weren't saying we should use diamonds as currency, but as we were discussing the qualities of currency, I thought it was a good place to show why one shiny substance may be more desirable than another as a currency.

Personally I value a nice ripe tomato over diamonds or gold, but thats just me.

You can actually do something with a tomato, and in the right light it is SO SHINY!

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Rhambuk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Personally I value a nice ripe tomato over diamonds or gold, but thats just me.

You can actually do something with a tomato, and in the right light it is SO SHINY!

But you don't value tomatoes as currency, one would hope. They aren't very durable, nor particularly scarce. I mean, how many pounds of tomatoes would you need to haul around to buy a new TV?

[Lojik]

I think economics in general is not very intuitive, and I think the best evidence towards that is how late humans began to understand basic economic concepts. I think the ancient greeks were the first to understand a wide variety of subjects, but when it comes to economics it isn't really until Adam Smith that we made a breakthrough there.

The value of currency is more than just the goods that you can buy with it (or the amount of the commodity that backs it.) The ability to facilitate trade and provide consumers and sellers with trust is invaluable.

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It would seem that my sentences were very clear. I know you weren't saying we should use diamonds as currency, but as we were discussing the qualities of currency, I thought it was a good place to show why one shiny substance may be more desirable than another as a currency.

is you're assumption based on that people would still use a current valuing system based upon a diamond's size? (ie because we do it this way now there's no way that people could do it another way in the past or in the future) a system could be made that would make it as easy as the gold one that you mentioned, and it still would be the same behavior that is in operation.

[Greegon]

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Loaves of bread are not very durable.

yes yes but i can spread some nutella on that bitch

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

is you're assumption based on that people would still use a current valuing system based upon a diamond's size? (ie because we do it this way now there's no way that people could do it another way in the past or in the future) a system could be made that would make it as easy as the gold one that you mentioned, and it still would be the same behavior that is in operation.

"A system could be made". Are you implying that you could somehow impose an artificial value system on diamonds? Good luck with that, lol. Diamond value vs size is the way it is because you can't just combine 2 small diamonds to make a larger diamond. People understand this and the natural distribution of diamond size has great influence on the value. If all diamonds naturally came out of the ground with the exact same size (and then were only broken down when the sum of value of the smaller diamonds exceeded the value of the larger one), then you could have a system as you suggest. As that is not how it works in the natural world, your system wouldn't work. Unless you somehow got everyone to change their perception of value, which seems like a Herculean task.

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"A system could be made". Are you implying that you could somehow impose an artificial value system on diamonds? Good luck with that, lol. Diamond value vs size is the way it is because you can't just combine 2 small diamonds to make a larger diamond. People understand this and the natural distribution of diamond size has great influence on the value. If all diamonds naturally came out of the ground with the exact same size (and then were only broken down when the sum of value of the smaller diamonds exceeded the value of the larger one), then you could have a system as you suggest. As that is not how it works in the natural world, your system wouldn't work. Unless you somehow got everyone to change their perception of value, which seems like a Herculean task.

perception of value. that's the behavior i was saying. diamond has no value as it stands until a human came along and decided it was valuable (this has been previously said in the thread btw, and was the origin or my "what are you talking about") and that notion has been sustained by humans. it's like the sun only becomes "the sun" (all the symbolism and metaphors attached to it along with the scientific notions) after humans have attached those notions to it. the base perception would be unknown because we don't know how to engage the sun or diamonds as if there wasn't significance attached to them. that herculean task is possible, but uncomfortable because it forces an absolute nihilism to be the starting point; then creation begins.

how do you think that we think, and try not to use cognitive science or any notions of a ghost in the machine (matrix bullshit) kind of thing. it's a fun test.

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

perception of value. that's the behavior i was saying. diamond has no value as it stands until a human came along and decided it was valuable (this has been previously said in the thread btw, and was the origin or my "what are you talking about") and that notion has been sustained by humans. it's like the sun only becomes "the sun" (all the symbolism and metaphors attached to it along with the scientific notions) after humans have attached those notions to it. the base perception would be unknown because we don't know how to engage the sun or diamonds as if there wasn't significance attached to them. that herculean task is possible, but uncomfortable because it forces an absolute nihilism to be the starting point; then creation begins.

how do you think that we think, and try not to use cognitive science or any notions of a ghost in the machine (matrix bullshit) kind of thing. it's a fun test.

I wasn't debating the notion of where value comes from. You went off on quite a tangent to attack that straw man. I was pointing out the reason why the value structure of diamonds is the way that it is, and that changing the value structure in a world where the production of diamonds is unchanged is probably impossible. Yes, diamonds by themselves only have value because we as people perceive them to have value. But the structure of value is mostly independent of our value judgments and primarily rooted in the physical properties (non-fusability, variability of size) of diamonds.

Take an analogy: Cars are the same in regards to their structure of value. You'll have a hell of a time selling a left half of a car for half the price of a whole car. And just saying "we could change our values so that isn't so" isn't likely to change that fact.