Quickfingers (TMOFFICER) gets logged by GM and subsequently get banned for MQ

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No socking raid forces within aggro range

No socking raid forces in zones

No sitting on spawn points for FTE

Guilds allowed 1 Tracker in the zone (no bullshit with untagged trackers or suffer raid suspensions)

Guilds allowed to bring in players to buff and camp out

Guilds not allowed to sit players in a zone for more than 10 minutes. Get your buffs and log out or log out and wait for your buffer to come available for buffs.

[Autotune]

Trak
- Must be killed in Lair
- Jugg camping must be done outside locked door if a guild also wants to attempt trakanon during his window

[quido]

So how long before it becomes a "prove it" situation like with the 15 man rule, with people encroaching on the limits and claiming that one side was over/undermanned/whateverthefuck?

[Mortiiss]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So how long before it becomes a "prove it" situation like with the 15 man rule, with people encroaching on the limits and claiming that one side was over/undermanned/whateverthefuck?

No one said anything about a 15 man rule. Man, you're reaching harder than Alarti right now, its kinda funny.

[quido]

I'm talking about situations where people press the limits and it gets put on us to provide evidence of what actually happened - that much should be clear, moran.

Maybe you've never heard of it, but there was once this thing called the 15-man rule that the GMs didn't feel like actually having to enforce themselves. So they left it up to us to provide evidence of who actually had and maintained a force of 15 people on a spawn. Unfortunately the GMs still were forced to sort through a bunch of conflicting screenshots and frapses, and the system basically crumbled (not soon enough) because it was retarded and nobody wanted to deal with it.

So can you see where I'm going with this yet, Mortiss?

I'm suggesting that it won't be long before people start leaving too many people in a zone or whatever the hell, and there will be conflicting reports of what actually happened (he was afk by accident - I swear!) and there's not going to be anyone who can reasonably sort through such a situation. Things will descend into chaos like they did before and you will just see a shitload of training, stolen pulls, and general douchebaggery.

Mortiss I really don't mean to be rude, but your posts are all garnish and no meat. Let's hear a real suggestion from you that isn't a rotation or just some vague desire to improve the raiding scene. Either that or you should probably shut up with your stupid white knighting.

[Quickfingers]

This thread is TERRIBLE

[quido]

shut up moran

[getsome]

Tmo and fe should be inside vp and never leave. Would solve the problems for everyone.

I been bound in sf outside vp for a year. Great spot.

[Mortiiss]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm talking about situations where people press the limits and it gets put on us to provide evidence of what actually happened - that much should be clear, moran.

Maybe you've never heard of it, but there was once this thing called the 15-man rule that the GMs didn't feel like actually having to enforce themselves. So they left it up to us to provide evidence of who actually had and maintained a force of 15 people on a spawn. Unfortunately the GMs still were forced to sort through a bunch of conflicting screenshots and frapses, and the system basically crumbled (not soon enough) because it was retarded and nobody wanted to deal with it.

So can you see where I'm going with this yet, Mortiss?

I'm suggesting that it won't be long before people start leaving too many people in a zone or whatever the hell, and there will be conflicting reports of what actually happened (he was afk by accident - I swear!) and there's not going to be anyone who can reasonably sort through such a situation. Things will descend into chaos like they did before and you will just see a shitload of training, stolen pulls, and general douchebaggery.

Mortiss I really don't mean to be rude, but your posts are all garnish and no meat. Let's hear a real suggestion from you that isn't a rotation or just some vague desire to improve the raiding scene. Either that or you should probably shut up with your stupid white knighting.

Its the guilds and the players involved responsibility to not turn it into a bunch of rule lawyers argue stuff by the letter. When your guild is involved, of course, all that matters is the fine print. That's why no one likes you guys - most people are for the "intent" not the "as written" that I know you would champion around like a toolbox.

I didn't raid back in those days, but for people who did (getsome perhaps?) did TMO do most of the rule lawyering or was it something all parties were involved in? Since starting on this server our guild has had to run fraps pretty much 24/7 and watch whatever TMO is doing at all times because they try some of the sleeziest shit I've ever seen a raiding guild do.

How many times has Sentenza been suspended for training? He an officer? Oh.

Zeelot talks about how he likes griefing and training people too. Chest put it best: "This is why we can't have nice things."

[Mortiiss]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm talking about situations where people press the limits and it gets put on us to provide evidence of what actually happened - that much should be clear, moran.

Maybe you've never heard of it, but there was once this thing called the 15-man rule that the GMs didn't feel like actually having to enforce themselves. So they left it up to us to provide evidence of who actually had and maintained a force of 15 people on a spawn. Unfortunately the GMs still were forced to sort through a bunch of conflicting screenshots and frapses, and the system basically crumbled (not soon enough) because it was retarded and nobody wanted to deal with it.

So can you see where I'm going with this yet, Mortiss?

I'm suggesting that it won't be long before people start leaving too many people in a zone or whatever the hell, and there will be conflicting reports of what actually happened (he was afk by accident - I swear!) and there's not going to be anyone who can reasonably sort through such a situation. Things will descend into chaos like they did before and you will just see a shitload of training, stolen pulls, and general douchebaggery.

Mortiss I really don't mean to be rude, but your posts are all garnish and no meat. Let's hear a real suggestion from you that isn't a rotation or just some vague desire to improve the raiding scene. Either that or you should probably shut up with your stupid white knighting.

Originally Posted by Mortiiss [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Its the guilds and the players involved responsibility to not turn it into a bunch of rule lawyers argue stuff by the letter. When your guild is involved, of course, all that matters is the fine print. That's why no one likes you guys - most people are for the "intent" not the "as written" that I know you would champion around like a toolbox.

I didn't raid back in those days, but for people who did (getsome perhaps?) did TMO do most of the rule lawyering or was it something all parties were involved in? Since starting on this server our guild has had to run fraps pretty much 24/7 and watch whatever TMO is doing at all times because they try some of the sleeziest shit I've ever seen a raiding guild do.

How many times has Sentenza been suspended for training? He an officer? Oh.

Zeelot talks about how he likes griefing and training people too. Chest put it best: "This is why we can't have nice things."

Excuse the blatant typos.