China fights back against Fake News

[Gravydoo II]

Its not "communism" like americans say when referring to democrats and what not. Its not even communism in the traditional sense, anymore.

[imperiouskitten]

communism doesn't even mean anything anymore except as a historical term. It's been so overapplied and overstretched you're better off with a different word.

China ain't working to foment a global worker's revolution in any sense of the phrase, but rather to produce an ethnic/cultural hegemony, so I would agree it's not really communist in any meaningful way. But really it's just an authoritarian state with its own characteristics. It just is. I'd compare it to nazism first because of the emphasis on stratification and race and expansionism but it's all semantic goobergames. I'm sure we can agree it's "a little too tightly controlled" and "scary" for our tastes

[Thulian]

some poor girl in saudi arabia that lobbied to have women drive got 6 years today lol

[Lune]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lol gravy are you trying to argue that the chinese communist party is not?

Is this waht the next 4 years is going to be like? People trying to tell people the CCP is not communist, or authoritarian?

Someone kill me in a civil war quick.

They are the CCP nominally only. China hasn't had a communist market since before the reforms in the 70's and 80's. Communism would denote some kind of systematic sharing of resources, communal property, or redistribution, which does not exist. I challenge anyone to make an actual factual argument with evidence of Chinese communism. China is de facto a state capitalist system, and it has far more in common with national socialisms/fascism than it does communism. Even the Chinese constitution explicitly and boldly defines the CCP and the Chinese system as a whole as "socialism with Chinese characteristics".

The Chinese allow parallel operation of mixed market capitalism and free enterprise with major government intervention to 'guide' the economy as they see fit. Sound familiar? That's exactly what we do here in the United States, except we have different priorities and a different level of 'guidance'. China's system closely resembles how things operated in Fascist Germany-- healthy free enterprise activity, but heavy state participation in certain industries that are relevant to the state's strategic plan, and regulation of industries and activities deemed "parasitic" such as market speculation, excessive usury and the like.

This is why China has been so effective both at fostering immense economic growth and luring foreign investment, while simultaneously manipulating their currency and stealing Western intellectual property for use in home-grown, state-sponsored enterprises.

I think the confusion in this thread is yet another hilarious result of major deficits in US education regarding foreign countries. We got people making it to 2020 posting in this thread still thinking China is communist because no-one ever told them otherwise. lol

[Jibartik]

Ok what are they democratic socialists?

Please.

[imperiouskitten]

state capitalists is more descriptive I guess.

words don't have meaning if you stretch them too far dear. Nothing to do with being a fan of ching chong china.

Communist isn't literally a synonym for "bad strong government", it refers to specific things

[Jibartik]

In China Marxism is modified as the political ideology by the Communist Party of China to govern the party and the nation.

The important concepts of Marxism, such as the ruling class and the ruling ideas, the material labor and the mental labor, superstructure and economic base, and the ideological state apparatuses, are used by the paramount leaders of People's Republic of China to create guiding socio-political theories which make up the Chinese Marxist Philosophy.

[imperiouskitten]

now we're believing what the CCP says about itself? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]


there's a lineage. there have been several soft revolutions (great leap forward etc) which fundamentally altered "the superstructure" without erasing the base of the iconography of previous regimes. This is just a semantic argument, idk why ur so triggered lmao.

[Jibartik]

Well, if the air we breathe is a conspiracy I cant win an argument that it isnt.

[Lune]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok what are they democratic socialists?

Please.

Democratic socialism typically describes more open societies. I wouldn't call China 'democratic', they are far too authoritarian. China, though it aspires to be socialist, is not yet wealthy enough to support the types of safety nets and public institutions that characterize current, successful democratic-socialist states.

China has an entirely different governmental structure than Western states. For example, it has no parliament. It styles itself a "proletariat democracy" in contrast to Western "bourgeoisie democracy". It uses popular sovereignty as an excuse for its lapses in universal franchise, claiming that elections and parties will naturally be won by people with money, and the bourgeoisie will always be the people with money, and will thus always dominate in such a system.

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In China Marxism is modified as the political ideology by the Communist Party of China to govern the party and the nation.

The important concepts of Marxism, such as the ruling class and the ruling ideas, the material labor and the mental labor, superstructure and economic base, and the ideological state apparatuses, are used by the paramount leaders of People's Republic of China to create guiding socio-political theories which make up the Chinese Marxist Philosophy.

Again, there have been many departures from Marxist rhetoric since the 1980's. China still lovingly clings to idealized Marxist concepts, but in practice the modern chinese state is a syncretic system, a mixed market with heavy government intervention that strives for socialism. Many of the Marxist elements that the CCP embraces are more cultural than economic, and are used to justify things like what I mentioned above, such as not having a parliament or constitution.