#3521
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Unfortunately you are the one who keeps claiming all data that disagrees with them is invalid without evidence. That is not an argument, so we have yet to progress the discussion past your pointless trolling.
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Shamwowi Wipesalot (60 SHM) | Bazgek Bonebreaker (60 SK) | Sznake Pliszken (52 MNK) | Laanfear (30 ENC)
Do you have questions about Shaman races? Read my guide: https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwow...man_Race_Guide Want to see Shaman videos? Check out my youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFU...zEFJVBIH3-jUog | |||
#3522
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DSM has repeatedly provided copy/pastes which simply do not contain any evidence or data of his Shaman performing DPS - or any other action/activity - in an environment/context/scenario that is (or would be) relevant to the discussion; hence his copy/pastes are irrelevant to this discussion. While DSM is - seemingly - unable or unwilling to provide relevant evidence/data that supports his many claims/statements/positions (which change when he moves the goalposts & edits his posts), I have irrefutable proof of the following, which DSM has as of yet not replied to/acknowledged/defended/challenged/attempted to refute: Here is irrefutable proof/evidence - which cannot be refuted, and which is self evident - of DSM attempting to move the goalposts by bringing a 5th "pocket" character into his "arguments" (even though this is intended to be a civil discussion - not an argument) pertaining to the "Best 4 person all caster/priest group" discussion": Quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum: Quote:
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For these reasons - which I have repeatedly stated - I am not sure which particular/specific belief/claim/stance/"argument"(s) that DSM is currently holding/defending/"arguing"; it would be helpful if he could elaborate/clarify/specify for the sake of civil discussion. I am also not sure why DSM has continued to copy/paste his - irrelevant - data, after this exchange occured - which cannot be refuted & is visible and clear in the cleary visible post history - which DSM has as of yet not replied to/acknowledged/defended/challenged/attempted to refute: Quote:
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The ball is in DSM's court if he has relevant, factual data to support his various positions/claims/"argument"(s) - and is willing to clarify which particular position/claim/argument(s) he currently holds/"argues", as they change when he moves goalposts or edits his posts - and/or if he would like to provide the definitions he is using for "troll"/"trolling", "nonsense", "silly", "vitriol", and "win"for the sake of civil discussion hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] | ||||||||||||||
#3523
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Because I thought you were merely a child too cowardly to admit defeat. But you'd be "happy" to admit it, right? | |||
#3524
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I am not sure why the data and maths I have presented are so threatening to you that you must resort to such childish tactics.
__________________
Shamwowi Wipesalot (60 SHM) | Bazgek Bonebreaker (60 SK) | Sznake Pliszken (52 MNK) | Laanfear (30 ENC)
Do you have questions about Shaman races? Read my guide: https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwow...man_Race_Guide Want to see Shaman videos? Check out my youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFU...zEFJVBIH3-jUog | |||
#3525
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If we had a hypocrisy metre right now, it'd go off the scales.
So much projection here, it's astounding. | ||
#3526
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Remember we’re voting on whether a shaman or druid would be a better addition to a 2 enchanter 1 cleric all caster group. So far shamans are losing by a wide margin. Poor DSM.
————————————————— Tally so far Druid 4 Shaman 1 Tie 1 (with druid lean) Get your votes in! As DSM won’t cast an official vote, I’ll presume shaman is his preference and have cast his vote in absentia for him. If he changes is mind I’ll happily change his vote to druid POLLING STATION WILL CLOSE SOON! Get your votes in! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Unless we get a slate of fake electors to hijack voting machines and usurp the will of the fine upstanding legal citizens of Norrath it looks like shamans are going to be relegated 5th best choice for this group (otherwise known as “dayum almost as bad as wizards”) [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Cast your votes now!
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Last edited by Troxx; 09-17-2022 at 11:57 PM..
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#3527
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Perhaps, instead of - laughably - creating strawmen such as that others are threatened, you could address the below: DSM has repeatedly provided copy/pastes which simply do not contain any evidence or data of his Shaman performing DPS - or any other action/activity - in an environment/context/scenario that is (or would be) relevant to the discussion; hence his copy/pastes are irrelevant to this discussion. While DSM is - seemingly - unable or unwilling to provide relevant evidence/data that supports his many claims/statements/positions (which change when he moves the goalposts & edits his posts), I have irrefutable proof of the following, which DSM has as of yet not replied to/acknowledged/defended/challenged/attempted to refute: Here is irrefutable proof/evidence - which cannot be refuted, and which is self evident - of DSM attempting to move the goalposts by bringing a 5th "pocket" character into his "arguments" (even though this is intended to be a civil discussion - not an argument) pertaining to the "Best 4 person all caster/priest group" discussion": Quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum: Quote:
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For these reasons - which I have repeatedly stated - I am not sure which particular/specific belief/claim/stance/"argument"(s) that DSM is currently holding/defending/"arguing"; it would be helpful if he could elaborate/clarify/specify for the sake of civil discussion. I am also not sure why DSM has continued to copy/paste his - irrelevant - data, after this exchange occured - which cannot be refuted & is visible and clear in the cleary visible post history - which DSM has as of yet not replied to/acknowledged/defended/challenged/attempted to refute: Quote:
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The ball is in DSM's court if he has relevant, factual data to support his various positions/claims/"argument"(s) - and is willing to clarify which particular position/claim/argument(s) he currently holds/"argues", as they change when he moves goalposts or edits his posts - and/or if he would like to provide the definitions he is using for "troll"/"trolling", "nonsense", "silly", "vitriol", and "win"for the sake of civil discussion hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] | |||||||||||||||
#3528
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[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
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#3529
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Please ignore PlsNoBan, Troxx, Cyxthryth, Gloomlord, Karanis, Toxigen, Ripqozko, cd288, and Chortles Snortles in this thread. They are just trolling. They have accumulated over 1000 posts that are literally just memes and insults between them. They shouldn't since this isn't RnF, but they seem to enjoy being silly in this thread.
Reposting the current state of the discussion: Thanks for the logs Allishia! It is much easier to do parsing this way. Based on the logs the Epic Pet is doing 80-90 DPS. For strong manning the argument, I will use a 90 DPS parse that also had a good number of damage shield hits. This is a mana dumping situation, not a situation where you are conserving mana between fights: ======Mage DPS Parse====== In the logs the pet is confirmed to have Burnout IV and a Muzzle. Pet DPS Parse: Pet Damage: 3805 in 42 seconds = 90.6 DPS Scars of Sigil Parse: Scars of Sigil Damage: 3150 in 42 seconds = 75 DPS ======Epic Mage DPS No Damage Shield====== 3805 in 42 seconds = 90.6 DPS 3150 in 42 seconds = 75 DPS for 1225 mana in 14 seconds (no specialization bonus due to spell being Evocation) 1225 - 200 mana from meditate = 1025 mana lost in the minute. 6955 in 42 seconds = 165.6 DPS ======Shaman DPS Parse====== In the logs the pet is confirmed to have Celerity, Maniacal Strength, and Focus of Spirit. Pet DPS Parse: Pet Damage: 940 in 42 seconds = 22.4 DPS Bane of Nife Damage: 150 + (214 x 6) = 1434 for 425 mana in 5 seconds Ice Strike Damage : 675 x 4 = 2700 for 1000 mana in 28 seconds ======Shaman DPS No Damage Shield====== 940 in 42 seconds = 22.4 DPS 4134 in 42 seconds = 98.4 DPS for 1425 mana - 416 mana cannibalized back (Torpor specialization bonus) in 27 seconds = 1009 mana lost in the minute. 5074 in 42 seconds = 120.8 DPS ======DPS Difference without Damage Shield====== Difference without Damage Shield = 165.6 DPS - 120.8 DPS = 44.8 DPS while both the Shaman and Mage spend 1000 mana total ======Damage Shield====== Damage Shield Parse: ======DPS Difference with Damage Shield====== Subtracting 11 from the Damage Shield number. The assumption is there will be an Enchanter in the party, which means you will always have a minimum damage shield of 11 via Feedback. DPS added by damage shield, assuming Epic Pet is Tanking: (50 - 11) x 24 / 42 = 22.3 DPS DPS added by damage shield on slowed mob, assuming Epic Pet is Tanking: (50 - 11) x (24 * 0.3) / 42 = 6.7 DPS DPS added by cast damage shield, assuming Epic Pet is not Tanking: (33 - 11) x 24 / 42 = 12.5 DPS DPS added by cast damage shield on slowed mob, assuming Epic Pet is not Tanking: (33 - 11) x (24 * 0.3) / 42 = 3.8 DPS Difference with Damage Shield = 48.6-67.1 DPS, depending on slow/tanking situation. ======DPS Difference in the Four Man Group====== The two groups are going to be Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Shaman and Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Mage. According to Troxx's data, the average DPS a level 47 charmed pet with Enchanter haste and a Torch was doing 86 DPS. If two Enchanters are in the group, the DPS is 86 (Enchanter) + 86 (Enchanter) + 120.8 (Shaman) + 6.3 (Enchanter Damage Shield) = 299.1 DPS If two Enchanters are in the group, the DPS is 86 (Enchanter) + 86 (Enchanter) + 165.6 (Mage) + 18.8 (Mage Damage Shield) = 356.4 DPS with a Shaman. DPS Difference in the Four Man Group = 57.3 DPS ======DPS Breakpoints in the Four Man Group====== This is assuming the group is killing a mob with 8000 HP. The mob in the Mage parse had 8000 HP when you include the damage shield damage. 8000 HP / 299.1 DPS = 26.75 seconds per kill. 8000 HP / 356.4 DPS = 22.45 seconds per kill. DPS Difference in kill speed = 4.3 seconds It turns out both sides were right. At least Epic Mages are doing higher DPS than Troxx's data, but the extra DPS doesn't really matter when looking at the breakpoints. For reference, Fungi King has 17750 HP according to the wiki. That means a group with a Shaman is killing him in 59.3 seconds, and a group with a mage is killing him in 49.8 seconds. That means you are saving a grand total of 9.5 seconds per Fungi King/PH kill. You would kill Fungi King (1620 seconds respawn / 9.5 second saved) = 170 times in a row to get an extra spawn. That is 85 hours continuously camping the mob. We don't have raw log data for a focused level 60 water pet, which will be much more common. Therefore I cannot currently confirm the DPS difference between a normal Mage and an Epic Mage. Right now Troxx's data is all we have for the level 60 Water Pet, which is lower than the Epic Pet. It is up to the reader to decide if they think 4.3 seconds per kill is worth losing all the utility a Shaman has to offer. This is if choosing an Epic Mage over a Shaman in a four man group where you are choosing between Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Mage or Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Shaman. I do agree with OP's choice of Necromancer/Enchanter/Shaman/Mage. With this combination you have maximum access to all camps via these classes utility, while hitting the DPS threshold. You could level up a pocket cleric for easier resing and CHing if you desire, you only need to level it to 49 for 90% res and CH.
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Shamwowi Wipesalot (60 SHM) | Bazgek Bonebreaker (60 SK) | Sznake Pliszken (52 MNK) | Laanfear (30 ENC)
Do you have questions about Shaman races? Read my guide: https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwow...man_Race_Guide Want to see Shaman videos? Check out my youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFU...zEFJVBIH3-jUog | ||
#3530
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DSM has repeatedly provided copy/pastes which simply do not contain any evidence or data of his Shaman performing DPS - or any other action/activity - in an environment/context/scenario that is (or would be) relevant to the discussion; hence his copy/pastes are irrelevant to this discussion. While DSM is - seemingly - unable or unwilling to provide relevant evidence/data that supports his many claims/statements/positions (which change when he moves the goalposts & edits his posts), I have irrefutable proof of the following, which DSM has as of yet not replied to/acknowledged/defended/challenged/attempted to refute: Here is irrefutable proof/evidence - which cannot be refuted, and which is self evident - of DSM attempting to move the goalposts by bringing a 5th "pocket" character into his "arguments" (even though this is intended to be a civil discussion - not an argument) pertaining to the "Best 4 person all caster/priest group" discussion": Quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum: Quote:
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For these reasons - which I have repeatedly stated - I am not sure which particular/specific belief/claim/stance/"argument"(s) that DSM is currently holding/defending/"arguing"; it would be helpful if he could elaborate/clarify/specify for the sake of civil discussion. I am also not sure why DSM has continued to copy/paste his - irrelevant - data, after this exchange occured - which cannot be refuted & is visible and clear in the cleary visible post history - which DSM has as of yet not replied to/acknowledged/defended/challenged/attempted to refute: Quote:
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The ball is in DSM's court if he has relevant, factual data to support his various positions/claims/"argument"(s) - and is willing to clarify which particular position/claim/argument(s) he currently holds/"argues", as they change when he moves goalposts or edits his posts - and/or if he would like to provide the definitions he is using for "troll"/"trolling", "nonsense", "silly", "vitriol", and "win" for the sake of civil discussion hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] | ||||||||||||||
Last edited by cyxthryth; 09-18-2022 at 12:11 AM..
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